Slate roof replacement. Am I being screwed?

[JaguarShark]

My partner and I recently purchased our first home in South Wales. It's a 1930s build with a welsh slate roof. I don't know how old the roof is but it could potentially be as old as the house. The survey flagged up that the underfelt and battens needed replacing and we had several quotes to do this. Two of them told us that they existing slate roof would also need replacing and suggested using fiber cement slates instead (my first regret is that I did not do more research into this claim). We decided to go with one of these roofers who was offering to do the work at a very reasonable price.

The roofer started Monday and called me up to say that he's changed his mind about the fiber cement slate and thought a conrete tile would be better for the roof. I was busy at work at the time and trusted that he was the expert (my second regret).

The tiles arrived today and I did some more research and realised that planning permission would be required to change the tiles from slate to concrete and that we should have had a structural engineer assess the suitability of the joists for a heavier roof. I called him this evening and told him this, and he has agreed to send the tiles back and go with the original plan to replace them with the fiber cement slates which weigh about the same as real slate. That's fine, but I also noticed that, while he originally told me that the original Welsh slate could not be salvaged, the workers have neatly stacked around 90% of the slate tiles on the scaffolding, fully intact.

My concern is that I've been lied to and that this slate is in fine condition to reuse. It seems obvious that he intends to sell it on. My plan tomorrow is to go ahead with the fiber cement slate, as that's what he's quoted us for and I don't trust them to have the expertise to install real slate, but to ask them to leave the real slate on site. That way, I can either sell it on myself or get a different roofer to reinstall it later. As far as I can see, he can't take issue with this as, if the slate is too poor to reuse (as he has told us it was) then I'm saving him money scrapping it.

Am I being screwed over? What do you think the right move is from this point?

 

[ree]

OP,
Natural Slate rules roofing - OK.
Were you provided with a written contract?
Do not change your slates for any other kind of material.
The "concrete fibre slates" aka Fibre Cement slates are also to be avoided.

Your original Welsh slates could possibly fetch as much sold on as a new fibre cement roof.
Slate typically lasts for hundreds of years. ie. N. Wales, defunct quarry Tamygrisian slates are probably still the slate gold standard.

Be there tomorrow - dont let them rip you off. Insist on having the original slates put back.
The roofer will complain the've fixed the wrong section battens, and/or the wrong gauge for the old slates - You say: "So what, change it, your problem, you tried to cheat me" ignore his arguments.

19mm x 38mm batten is pretty standard for slate, two nails/slate, Eaves, verges, ridge, rainwater goods & any flashings should all be in a contract.

 

[JaguarShark]

OP,
Natural Slate rules roofing - OK.
Were you provided with a written contract?
Do not change your slates for any other kind of material.
The "concrete fibre slates" aka Fibre Cement slates are also to be avoided.

Your original Welsh slates could possibly fetch as much sold on as a new fibre cement roof.
Slate typically lasts for hundreds of years. ie. N. Wales, defunct quarry Tamygrisian slates are probably still the slate gold standard.

Be there tomorrow - dont let them rip you off. Insist on having the original slates put back.
The roofer will complain the've fixed the wrong section battens, and/or the wrong gauge for the old slates - You say: "So what, change it, your problem, you tried to cheat me" ignore his arguments.

19mm x 38mm batten is pretty standard for slate, two nails/slate, Eaves, verges, ridge, rainwater goods & any flashings should all be in a contract.

Sorry, fiber cement is what I meant. Not sure where concrete fiber came from, my head is in a spin today.

Yes, I have a contract but fiber cement is what was in the contract.

If he refuses to put the slate back on, am I better off stopping the work and finding someone else to finish the job?

 

[Notch7]

Slate has a lifespan of 150+ years

Reclaimed Welsh slate tiles are worth between £1.00 and £1.50 each.
Have a look on ebay


I believe Spanish slate is often used for reroofing as it’s a fair bit cheaper than Welsh slate.


Personally I would say don’t let them take the slates away at all.

Your roof should be done by replacing all good existing tiles and buying new to make up the shortfall.

I would kick em off site.

Are the roofers Welsh and are you English?

 

[JaguarShark]

Slate has a lifespan of 150+ years

Reclaimed Welsh slate tiles are worth between £1.00 and £1.50 each.
Have a look on ebay


I believe Spanish slate is often used for reroofing as it’s a fair bit cheaper than Welsh slate.


Personally I would say don’t let them take the slates away at all.

Your roof should be done by replacing all good existing tiles and buying new to make up the shortfall.

I would kick em off site.

Are the roofers Welsh and are you English?

Opposite actually. We are Welsh and he's English!

I think we've decided that when he turns up today we're going to agree to the original deal of replacing with fiber cement slates for the 25 year guarantee, but inform him that we're keeping the slate. I've got half of it down off the roof already so salvaged a couple of grand already.

If he kicks off, we'll send him on his way and find someone else to fix it.

 

[JaguarShark]

Update with a picture of the slate I've salvaged from one half of the roof so far.

Roofer has agreed to go with the lightweight fibre cement slate and let us keep the slate coming off.

When I told him we wanted it he was clearly caught out and started talking about putting it back on and that we'd need to buy loads of extra reclaimed slate which cost "a lot".


I don't trust him to give us a fair price on this or do a good job with it so I told him I'm happy to go with fibre cement slate but to keep all the good slate in case we change our minds in future.

Are they gonna sabotage my roof?

 

[Notch7]

When I told him we wanted it he was clearly caught out and started talking about putting it back on

What a surprise…..


The picture of the slates shows they’ve been removed carefully and are in excellent condition.

My worry is they might lose interest in removing them and start breaking them instead….there’s a big difference in demolition for salvage and demolition for skip.

Are they gonna sabotage my roof?

Roofing is a very skilled job, the setting out, the abutments, the ridge detail, eves, flashings all need knowledge, experience and training to do a job that will last and be leak free.

If you have picked a well established company, they may well be bona fide tradesmen, but we’re just looking to have you over on the reclaim…..but the dishonesty is concerning.

Are they a well established roofing company?

 

[JaguarShark]

My worry is they might lose interest in removing them and start breaking them instead….there’s a big difference in demolition for salvage and demolition for skip.

The other half are already off just sitting on top of the scaffolding. I've told them to leave them there and I'll get the rest down myself this evening. He seemed a bit flabbergasted but I reminded him that he'd told us they were of no use so I'm happy to save him a job and take them off his hands.

They have lots of great reviews on Checkatrade but I'm aware that doesn't necessarily mean anything. Obviously I don't really know what I'm looking at but on inspection while I was up there, the job they've done so far looks professional.

 

[Notch7]

They have lots of great reviews on Checkatrade

Oh sh1t…..A truly terrible source of tradesmen.

I sincerely hope they are good, but this forum gets stories from customers with cowboy jobs and 9 out of 10 times it’s rated people, my builder, checkatrade…..etc

Please take photos of the work, ideally before any slates start going on and post on here as it goes….I don’t know enough to spot errors but there are some really experienced roofers on here that pick up errors instantly.



I am glad to hear the slates are down already.

Interesting to hear he told you they were no use…..

Be careful, he will be pizzed off, you’ve just done him out of a possible £1k or more.

I just want to point out, there is nothing wrong with tradesmen making money out of reclaim materials, it’s a hard job and there’s nothing wrong with profit. What is wrong is the dishonesty.

 

[JaguarShark]

Be careful, he will be pizzed off, you’ve just done him out of a possible £1k or more

This is the part I'm nervous about. We looked up the dimensions of the slate and they go for about £4 each reclaimed. I estimate there are around 700 of them in fine condition, so that's around £2.8k. I realise now that I've been an idiot and this guy just saw gold on our roof. The worst part is he wasn't the only roofer who told us that we'd need the slate removed. This is our first time hiring tradesman and it feels like everyone is out to scam us.

He didn't get angry with me when I spoke to him but I do expect he'll be trying to claw back money elsewhere. I'll take photos when they stop later.

 

[Dereekoo]

So this roofer came along and gave you what you considered a reasonable price. He tried to change to concrete but agreed with your wishes not to. He has carefully removed the slate tiles as opposed to just smashing them off (perhaps he has costed their resale value into the reasonable price ) and you are miffed because you think he is pulling a fast one but at the end of the day he is carrying out the contracted work, remove and dispose of tiles and replace with fibre cement slate. If I were him I would tell you to take a walk or to pay him for the extra time involved with carefully removing the existing tiles.

 

[JaguarShark]

If I were him I would tell you to take a walk or to pay him for the extra time involved with carefully removing the existing tiles.

If he wanted to walk I'd have been happy with that too. I knew it would cost more due to the labour and asked him up front about this.

The real problem is the dishonesty. If he was factoring this into the price, why wasn't that mentioned? And when I called him with my concern about the concrete tiles, and asked if we could have the slate put back on, why did he tell me the slate was too brittle to use?

Funnily enough he just called me with an offer to buy the slate off me and knock the cost of extra labour off the price. Suddenly, he's changed his tune about the slate being unusable and wants it for another job he has lined up. I told him I'd like to keep the slate and am happy to pay the extra.

My plan is to get the fibre cement slate roof as originally agreed and keep my slate to restore one day when I have the money to pay an expert.

 

[opps]

So this roofer came along and gave you what you considered a reasonable price. He tried to change to concrete but agreed with your wishes not to. He has carefully removed the slate tiles as opposed to just smashing them off (perhaps he has costed their resale value into the reasonable price ) and you are miffed because you think he is pulling a fast one but at the end of the day he is carrying out the contracted work, remove and dispose of tiles and replace with fibre cement slate. If I were him I would tell you to take a walk or to pay him for the extra time involved with carefully removing the existing tiles.

The guy told the OP that the tiles could not be salvaged. That would imply that he was either lying or that he should be grateful that the OP has negated the need to pay to dispose of them

 

[ChrisJP]

So this roofer came along and gave you what you considered a reasonable price. He tried to change to concrete but agreed with your wishes not to. He has carefully removed the slate tiles as opposed to just smashing them off (perhaps he has costed their resale value into the reasonable price ) and you are miffed because you think he is pulling a fast one but at the end of the day he is carrying out the contracted work, remove and dispose of tiles and replace with fibre cement slate. If I were him I would tell you to take a walk or to pay him for the extra time involved with carefully removing the existing tiles.

But the dishonesty was telling the OP that the slates on his roof were only fit for scrap so he needed complete new roof tiles, when in fact the roofer new them to be in good condition - that's why he removed them so carefully.
The correct quote from the roofer would have been to remove the slates, replace the underfelt and battens, and then put back the slates, providing new ones only for ones that were damaged.

 

[JaguarShark]

Here's the roof currently for anyone interested. I've got all the original slate safely stored away. From what I can tell 95% of them were in immaculate condition and we even had some spare in the garage. I reckon we would have only needed to source 30 odd new slates, so he's swindled himself out of an honest roofing job and he hasn't even ended up with the slate he wanted. I'm trusting the fibre cement slate to at least do the job for the time being, just want them gone now.