Sludge in water softener.. next steps please

[iipboss]

Hi,

I am hoping someone can help with this. By way of background, a couple of weeks ago our shower stopped working mid way through a shower and there was no water coming out of the cold taps anywhere other than the kitchen. During my investigation I discovered the cold water tank in the loft was not filling up (just a drip) and I took a guess that the water softener may have something to do with it and when I turned the bypass valve on the softener my problem was solved and I was very pleased with myself!

We have an electric Monarch water softener (about 12 years old) and today I emptied the salt tank and at the bottom came across a fairly solid sludge (about 4 inches deep) which I broke up with a wooden spoon and emptied out by hand and now the salt tank is fairly clean (although still small bits of salt in it)

My question is what to I do now?
Should I just fill with salt again and reverse the bypass? Or should I run it without any salt for some time? Could I put water in the salt tank to dissolve the remaining salt and if so would that flush away?

Also, it looks like I can see a bit of muslin type cloth down the side of the salt tank but I assume that is meant to be there? Or as it is 12 years old is it time to replace the whole unit?

Sorry for so many questions, but despite using the unit for 12 years I don't actually know how it works - despite Google!

Thank you.

 

[ant2]

If it was just hard at the top, it's a salt bridge, this can be broken up at the top so the softener can continue to suck up brine.

If it was a slurry mess, this was from bad salt, I've had this myself and it's a PITA, scoop it all out, as you probably know.

I'd fill with water and run a few cycles manually to make sure it's drawing brine.

Then refill with a new bag. This time just a layer of salt and check back over the next few days to make sure it's breaking down in to brine.

Id also disconnect the pick up pipe to see if it's stuck with slurry and clean through, as it can clog it.

Unsure of why a muslin would be in there, nothing should be in the brine box but salt and water

 

[iipboss]

Thank you! To be clear are you saying I should fill the salt bin with water from a jug or will the salt bin fill with water when I switch the valves back?

Thanks for the advice on checking the pick up pipe too.

 

[SFK]

Lipboss,
Try it first without salt. Only with water. And see if softner is actually working (allowing flow to house).

I say this as I had an internal blockage on salt flow side, but filled with salt before discovering, and then had issue of getting new salt out before I could locate and clear blockage .

Sfk

 

[iipboss]

Hi,

In digging a bit deeper I decided to disconnect everything to try and get to the bottom of the muslin issue.

The outlet valve was fine. Although is this the same as the pickup? Or is the pickup the pipe going into the salt?

However after breaking through the sludge (practically solid) I was a bit slocked to see a brown sludge?!! As per the photo - This turned out to be a bag of plumbing fittings - a present from the installer perhaps.

I have removed and cleaned everything and about to put back together, however could someone tell me should there be muslin around the pipe which feeds into the salt tank please? I can't even see this on the Monarch install guides.

 

[JohnD]

there shouldn't be anything in the bottom of the salt bin. Clean it out. I don't know why the rag is there. Mine has a mesh sleeve on the end of the pipe to prevent particles getting sucked up. Perhaps yours is missing. The very strong salt solution will corrode most materials. Perhaps the brown stain is from staples or some ferrous material that has rusted away.

If the softener is recycling, it will slowly wash away the salt. I've never seen that crust in mine. If it is not refilled with salt, it will eventually contain nothing but clear water (and possibly dust or dirt that has fallen in when the lid is opening for refilling. Perhaps the crust formed because the softener is not cycling. it's possible somebody has put kitchen or road salt in it, or some incorrect material. Softener salt is very pure and usually in tablets, pellets or granules. The larger pieces are easier to handle.

When it puts water in after running a regeneration, there will just be a few litres, enough to fill the cylinder. it does not put in a binfull, because the bin will usually be pretty full with salt.

With a bit of practice, you will know when the softener is working. Your bath and washing machine will foam more, and a wetshave will feel smoother than with hard water.

edit
btw you say yours is about 12 years old.

IME this is about the time the seals on the piston may need changing. In a Fleck valve the piston moves up and down with a cam during regeneration cycling, which opens and closes various ports to change the water flow through different channels. After 10 years or so they will have lost their lube and will be worn, there is hard water and therefore scale on the intake ports. I've had mine done by the local softener company, it's cheaper than buying a new one. You may be able to buy the parts yourself if they've used a common proprietary head.

 

[iipboss]

Hopefully last post, but one final question. I have cleaned all out and run a regen cycle which has filled up the salt tank with I would say one litre of water. My question is do I need to take this water out before adding the salt in, or is it okay to add the salt tablets on top of the water?

I will look to see if I can find a company to come and service in any case as suggested by JohnD.

Thank you all

 

[JohnD]

no, leave the water in. If you run a regen it will mostly get sucked into the cylinder.

1 litre does sound rather small.

 

[SFK]

LipBoss,
Sorry for my slow response. Agree fully with what JohnD said above.
Regarding the "muslin around the pipe", when I fitted my water softener, when new the end of the pipe was covered by a plastic bag (presumably to protect if from dirt whilst being shipped).
I removed this and on the end of the pipe on mine there is a plastic lump with windows covered in a plastic mesh.
I saw this as a method to suck up the briny water, but not suck up the Salt crystals themselves.

So my GUT feeling is that the bag should be removed and see what is inside (have you done this already?)

Regarding water, mine about quarter fills the container and then sucks all this out and onto the pressure vessel leaving about 2/3inches at bottom (perhaps set by the suction pipe ending about there) keeping bottom layer of salt wet.
I presume that the amount of water put in and brine water taken out has to match the spare volume in the pressure container as (on mine) the brine sits in pressure vessel to dissolve the hard water deposits from the Volcanic rock for >30mins.

Hope yours is now working,

SFK