Soil Waste Alterations - push fit/solvent weld & advice

[Emilian]

Hi

Just after a little advice before cracking on......

Is there any way of telling whether a joint on a 110mm soil pipe is push fit or solvent weld just by looking at it ?

The plastic pipework is in a late 60's house with the T to the WC labelled as 'OSMA 4" / 110mm'.

I have attached a couple of pictures below:

Untitled

• Emilian
• 2 Jan 2013
• 1

Toilet connection to 110mm OSMA soil pipe.

Untitled

• Emilian
• 2 Jan 2013
• 2

110mm pipe goes through side wall of toilet (single skin block) - plastered flush to pipe !

Untitled

• Emilian
• 2 Jan 2013
• 2

Into soil stack in adjacent bathroom (1st floor).

Untitled

• Emilian
• 2 Jan 2013
• 1

Upper joint in stack between pipe and 90 degree T in from WC side

Untitled

• Emilian
• 2 Jan 2013
• 1

Lower joint just visible at floorboard level (joist below board appears to butt up tight to stack pipe).

I am actually looking to remove the WC and relocate it into the adjacent bathroom to the left of the soil pipe. Looking at it it seems that:

Some plaster / wall will have to be removed to extracate the existing t jucnction (There are not roof timbers resting on the wall between the wc and bathroom - subject to getting a professional opinion I am hoping to remove this wall as part of refitting the bathroom - Shower cubicle to be installed in old WC space).

Having looked at the roof the soil pipe exits the roof and has some lead flashing making this juction weatherproof. Is there a risk that this junction gets compromised if trying to separate the push filttings (if indeed they are).

Cant budge any joints at the moment although this is primarily due to being fixed through walls etc. I am thinking of removing the WC so that I can try its 110mm pipe fitting (photo 1) to see if that separates.

Any thoughts or pearls of wisdom would be appreciated.

Thanks

Emilian

 

[CBF]

4" soil pipe doesn't come in push fit or solvent weld versions it is all the same, it is only waste pipe that does

 

[Emilian]

Thanks for the reply.

Are you suggesting that the only way to know if somone has splosed some solvent weld in there is to try pulling it apart ?

Having looked at some of OSMA and others 110mm pipe junctions (the 90 degree t ins) there seems to be some differences in the connections at the end for their push fit and solvent weld stuff (current stuff granted). The push fit seems to have bulges where the rubber seals are seated. There does seem to be variations in design between manufacturers and these are a 45 year old pipe.

I fancy i may have the toilet off tommorrow to try the juction on the back of that as the easiest starting point to see if its been welded before setting about the T juction on the stack.

Anyone had any experience in relation to lifting the soil stack to change out junctions and the risk to the soil stack flashing on the roof ?

Thanks

Emilian

 

[CBF]

all your pics show ring seal joints, the bulge you can see on the fittings contains a rubber sealing ring inside, if the soil pipe has been in that long you are going to have trouble removing the pipe from the fittings & even if you can i doubt the seals will be able to be reused, the lead slate on the roof should have a weather collar on it that fits over the pipe then in turn over the top of the lead slate, you should be able to push the pipe up but there is no guarentee the weather collar won't get moved so you may need to get on the roof to make sure it is sealed, not something you should do without the correct ladders/tower/scaffolding & safety equipment

 

[doitall]

4" soil pipe doesn't come in push fit or solvent weld versions it is all the same, it is only waste pipe that does

You can buy soil pipe and fittings that are push fit or solvent weld.

The pics show push fit.

The get the fittings apart you normally have to twist them and hope for the best.

The pipe where it goes through the slate, should have a skirt which is the weathering collar, so the pipe should lift up with any luck, if not get a slip socket and cut the pipe.

 

[SandyLyon]

4" soil pipe doesn't come in push fit or solvent weld versions it is all the same, it is only waste pipe that does

Most manufacturers offer a Ring Seal system and a Solvent Weld system in 4" soil.
In domestic situations far more Ring Seal is used, but in some regions SW is very common.

When you get onto the industrial and commercial projects, you will find SW is the preferred choice.

Terrain is the most well known of the SW brands, and you will find it in hospitals, schools, tower blocks etc.

Wavin (Osma) do a couple of SW ranges, one aimed at domestic market and a range called Certus targeting the M & E type jobs

 

[oph]

4" soil pipe doesn't come in push fit or solvent weld versions it is all the same, it is only waste pipe that does

It does mate.

trust me

 

[onecog]

4" soil pipe doesn't come in push fit or solvent weld versions it is all the same, it is only waste pipe that does

37 years plumbing/gas fitting and you learn something new everyday

 

[SandyLyon]

Unlike waste pipe, there is no difference in dia or materials between the two systems, therefore you can use a mixture of RS and SW on the same system.
In fact on a Solvent Weld system you will often find some Ring Seal fittings to allow for expansion.

 

[Emilian]

Thanks everyone for your comments - will remove toilet later and have a play with 1st joint.

The slip socket - is this just a normal connector like this:

http://www.travisperkins.co.uk/p/osmadrain-drainage-double-socket-slip-coupler-110mm/710580/3893452

I used these on some underground drain runs to a new soakaway earlier this year - they were really hard to fit - are they considerably easier with the silicone lube (I didnt know of this until yesterday).

Also can you slide the sleeve all the way fully onto one pipe and then slide it 1/2 way back down again and over the other pipe (I dont think im going to have much movement or room to play in my soil stack). The ones I used on my soakaway seemed to have internal tabs so the pipe could only be slid half way in.

Is this also an acceptable alternative (possibly easier to fit):

http://www.travisperkins.co.uk/p/flexseal-drainage-coupling-100-115mm/813761/3893447

If I have to cut pipe there is easier access for cutting the soil above the toilet waste t junction - cutting below this looks to be a pig as the lower soil pipe / toilet t juction is just below the level of the floorboards and butted against joist/wall.

Thanks again

 

[SandyLyon]

A slip coupling has no internal "stops" so it will slide fully onto one section of pipe, then "butt" up the other section of pipe and slide the slip coupling so that the Seals sit on each section

 

[denso13]

The flexseal joint will be much easier to fit, IMHO.

 

[RickMoore]

Slip couplers can be difficult to come by sometimes, easy solution is to knock out and/or file down the tabs inside, allowing the pipe to slip all the way onto the pipe.

 

[doitall]

Thanks everyone for your comments - will remove toilet later and have a play with 1st joint.

The slip socket - is this just a normal connector like this:

http://www.travisperkins.co.uk/p/osmadrain-drainage-double-socket-slip-coupler-110mm/710580/3893452

I used these on some underground drain runs to a new soakaway earlier this year - they were really hard to fit - are they considerably easier with the silicone lube (I didnt know of this until yesterday).

Also can you slide the sleeve all the way fully onto one pipe and then slide it 1/2 way back down again and over the other pipe (I dont think im going to have much movement or room to play in my soil stack). The ones I used on my soakaway seemed to have internal tabs so the pipe could only be slid half way in.

Is this also an acceptable alternative (possibly easier to fit):

http://www.travisperkins.co.uk/p/flexseal-drainage-coupling-100-115mm/813761/3893447

If I have to cut pipe there is easier access for cutting the soil above the toilet waste t junction - cutting below this looks to be a pig as the lower soil pipe / toilet t juction is just below the level of the floorboards and butted against joist/wall.

Thanks again

Yes Emilian only you need the grey, available at any plumbers merchant and probably most sheds as well.

 

[CBF]

ok now that i smell kinda strange, i will admit that terrain plus others do both versions, but that wasn't quite the point i was trying to make, with 32/40/50 mm waste pipe the fittings aren't interchangeable with the pipe, so if you have pushfit pipe you must use pushfit fittings, however 110mm soil isn't like that as long the pipe & fittings are made by the same company they are interchangable.

joe told me so i know it's true