I have 4 groups of 4 downlighters in the living room ceiling (one wall switch for each group). They are all Halogen bulbs. Over the years several have failed: there is no longer any current flow to these ones (bulbs themselves have not blown). All the other bulbs are still fine. Unfortunately, the wiring is above the false ceiling and hard to access without taking up the carpets and floorboards in the rooms above. If anyone has any idea what the cause might be, please let me know. The lighting system was installed about 20 years ago, along with a new RCD unit. Many thanks!
Some downlighters down, some fine!
- Thread starter Mike7487
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Is it one group of 4 ,on one switch ,that have failed ?
Are the bulbs 240volt ,or 12v using transformer/s ?
Are the bulbs 240volt ,or 12v using transformer/s ?
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Are the switches dimmers?
Sounds like you need a spark
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Nah. There's lots that can be done first.
@Mike7487 you are going to have to pull the downlights down from the ceiling and then - gently - pull down the wiring. hopefully that will include some junction boxes and transformers. Then we can advise further.
A photo of one of the lamps, so we cxan see the connectors would help too.
Thanks for all the responses!
The bulbs are 12 V
They aren't dimmable
Each circuit has at least one failed bulb
There's not much wiring I can pull down, but I will take some photos of what I can see in the roof space
Thanks again
Mike
The bulbs are 12 V
They aren't dimmable
Each circuit has at least one failed bulb
There's not much wiring I can pull down, but I will take some photos of what I can see in the roof space
Thanks again
Mike
@Mike7487 your larger issue is that the halogen bulbs are obsolete. They were discontinued some years ago. (2016!)
LED is today’s method. You can get 12volt LED lamps that will fit the existing bases but they will not work with the existing transformers- they are designed for the much higher power halogens.
As you have multiple issues, the solution is to ditch the existing lamps and transformers. Installing 230volt LED downlights is reasonably simple from a wiring point of view. I’m afraid that you would need to bite the bullet and get into the ceiling space. Sorry.
PS You may find this article useful
LED is today’s method. You can get 12volt LED lamps that will fit the existing bases but they will not work with the existing transformers- they are designed for the much higher power halogens.
As you have multiple issues, the solution is to ditch the existing lamps and transformers. Installing 230volt LED downlights is reasonably simple from a wiring point of view. I’m afraid that you would need to bite the bullet and get into the ceiling space. Sorry.
PS You may find this article useful
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www.downlights.co.uk
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As @Taylortwocities says, the old power supplies are likely switch mode like this
and this
where it says (20-60VA) means it needs a 20 watt load, these
old toroidal transformers will work OK with LED, so if round 
likely OK, new transformers 
will work, today they will likely say 0-50 as the one shown, but even then there is some old stock around.
The main problem moving to 230 volt, is the earth wire, the regulations say an earth wire must be taken to any lamp not suspended from the ceiling, it has done since 1966, many lamps don't need the earth, so it is how pedantic the person fitting them is, but 230 volt means you can use smart bulbs etc, so unless some special reason like some areas of a bathroom, then 230 volt is better.
You can get very good power to lumen bulbs using DC, and for some reason, the DC power supplies often called drivers, but really the DC versions are for boats and caravans, not really for standard house.
Often as long as one lamp is halogen the old power supply will work, so you can swap the odd bulb to LED, but normally not all unless really old.
The idea of 12 volt, was the filament was thicker so they lasted longer, quartz lamps should not be dimmed, they rely on being really hot to stop the tungsten being deposited on the quartz, so using an electronic transformer also resulted in voltage regulation so bulbs lasted even longer, but once we get rid of the tungsten lamps, there is no need for the extra low voltage.
and this likely OK, new transformers will work, today they will likely say 0-50 as the one shown, but even then there is some old stock around.The main problem moving to 230 volt, is the earth wire, the regulations say an earth wire must be taken to any lamp not suspended from the ceiling, it has done since 1966, many lamps don't need the earth, so it is how pedantic the person fitting them is, but 230 volt means you can use smart bulbs etc, so unless some special reason like some areas of a bathroom, then 230 volt is better.
You can get very good power to lumen bulbs using DC, and for some reason, the DC power supplies often called drivers, but really the DC versions are for boats and caravans, not really for standard house.
Often as long as one lamp is halogen the old power supply will work, so you can swap the odd bulb to LED, but normally not all unless really old.
The idea of 12 volt, was the filament was thicker so they lasted longer, quartz lamps should not be dimmed, they rely on being really hot to stop the tungsten being deposited on the quartz, so using an electronic transformer also resulted in voltage regulation so bulbs lasted even longer, but once we get rid of the tungsten lamps, there is no need for the extra low voltage.
My advice to you would be to replace the units with new ones that you can change the GU10 bulbs in.
Sealed units sound good BUT when they fail the whole unit needs replacing meaning potentially more damage to the ceiling.
Sealed units sound good BUT when they fail the whole unit needs replacing meaning potentially more damage to the ceiling.
Why do you think you need to take up floor boards?
The thought of using sixteen 50 W (halogen) lights (800 W) just to light one room is rather horrifying.!
(It would help to warm it in Winter.!)
Replacing them with LEDs would drop the maximum usage to about 80 W - or less.
Don't forget to consider the "Colour Temperature" of the LEDs which you use as replacements.
They should all be the same.
I prefer 4000 K,
but
that is a matter of personal taste.
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