some more factual tv for Newgas

[mickyg]

You might of missed this yesterday, but available on iplayer. Very interesting. A little in there about scientists being persecuted by the church too

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00s9mms

 

[Homesafe]

Not at this time in the morning MickyG .

I'll check it out later.

 

[mickyg]

I hope you was watching tonight, very interesting again, next weeks episode should be a must watch for you.
"How did we get here?" how science has wrestled with the controversial issue of human origins

you never know you might learn something "factual"

 

[Lincsbodger]

I hope you was watching tonight, very interesting again, next weeks episode should be a must watch for you.
"How did we get here?" how science has wrestled with the controversial issue of human origins

you never know you might learn something "factual"

When you say 'how did we get here', at what point are you starting ?

 

[Homesafe]

Luckilly I was watching it tonight had totally forgotten about your post tho. .

Loved it, the make up of substances and their reaction with electricity,
And the discoveries most by chance .

What about the bit where they showed the atom surrounded by electrons and then the nucleus of the atom, and then he said basically everything is
an illusion so to speak it's empty, and gave the analogy of st,pauls as an atom and the nucleus as a grain of sand.

Great stuff.

 

[joinerjohn]

Reply to Lincsbodger:

Well it's obvious how we got here.!!!
According to Stephen Hawking, there was a Big Bang some trillions of years ago, which created the universe (as we know it). Sometime along the way, life developed on Earth and eventually crawled out of the primordial soup and eventually developed into us lot. Arguing on the Jeremy Kyle show every morning, or shouting on Tricia...
Job's a good un. Sounds fair enough to me.

 

[Homesafe]

Reply to Lincsbodger:

Well it's obvious how we got here.!!!
According to Stephen Hawking, there was a Big Bang some trillions of years ago, which created the universe (as we know it). Sometime along the way, life developed on Earth and eventually crawled out of the primordial soup and eventually developed into us lot. Arguing on the Jeremy Kyle show every morning, or shouting on Tricia...
Job's a good un. Sounds fair enough to me.

You make it sound so complicated

 

[Lincsbodger]

Reply to Lincsbodger:

Well it's obvious how we got here.!!!
According to Stephen Hawking, there was a Big Bang some trillions of years ago, which created the universe (as we know it). Sometime along the way, life developed on Earth and eventually crawled out of the primordial soup and eventually developed into us lot. Arguing on the Jeremy Kyle show every morning, or shouting on Tricia...
Job's a good un. Sounds fair enough to me.

I asked because it depends where you start. Ive had several debates with creationists about this. The fact is that life in the universe was inevitable from the point the static parameters of the universe were fixed at about 10^-43 of a second, the point just before inflation.

AT that point it was inevitable that protons, neutrons and electrons would form, because the weak nucelar force, the strong nuclear force, gravity, and electromagnetism were exactly the right values, as were other forces such as the Planck Constant and the Close Packing Constant. That allwoed matter to form ,and the correct value for CPR violation allowed a surplus of matter over antimatter..........

etc etc. Its called the Goldilocks Effect, everything was just right.

The creationist argue that its too improbable that one universe woudl be exactly right, it must be god. The answer is there probably billions of universes in the metaverse, and every possible set of parameters has been tried. Some universes are exactly right and life forms, most are wrong and sterile, of dont even get past inflation. So its not a wonder to me.

The more interesting question is where does dimensionality come from? The most promising theory is Roger Penrose's Twistor Theory, in which the dimensionality of the universe is a product of two dimensional structures called Spinors. Below the Planck Length 'dimensionality' is meaningless.

Another intriguing development of this is that spatial dimensions are interchangeable with time dimensions, iw we have a 3S+T (3 spatial plus 1 time) universe, its possible to have say 2S+2T universe, or any combination of time and space.

Also there s no definitive reason WHY we have 4 dimensions, either. Penroses theory says that time and spatial dimensions may transmute from one to the other. One indication this is happening is that the speed of light may appear to vary, which funnily enough, seems to be have been observed in our universe, its one explanation for why older galaxies are expanding faster then newer ones.

All interesting stuff........

 

[mickyg]

When you say 'how did we get here', at what point are you starting ?

watch the programme and you'll find out. The last 2 episodes are available on iplayer "The Story of Science"
tues 2100 bbc2

 

[mickyg]

gave the analogy of st,pauls as an atom and the nucleus as a grain of sand.

it was a good analogy, makes ya think eh! entire human population can fit inside a sugar cube

 

[Lincsbodger]

When you say 'how did we get here', at what point are you starting ?

watch the programme and you'll find out. The last 2 episodes are available on iplayer "The Story of Science"
tues 2100 bbc2

im well past the basic stuff like that, its been a fav subject of mine since i was about 12........

as well as whats posted above, another current interest is the granularity of time. We know dimensionality breaks down at small enough distance or high enough curvature, but there most be a point where theres the smallest possible unit of time - quantization occurs in energy (photons) and space, so there MUST be quanta of time. Its got to be connected to the smallest amount of matter required to cause the Wave Function to collapse, which we know is the energy equivalent of 10^-7 grams.

 

[lifesagasman]

you've lost Nuke...

 

[Homesafe]

I asked because it depends where you start. Ive had several debates with creationists about this .

Who dictates where you start?

The fact is that life in the universe was inevitable from the point the static parameters of the universe were fixed at about 10^-43 of a second, the point just before inflation.

Who says this?

AT that point it was inevitable that protons, neutrons and electrons would form,

How are you so sure? it's the big bang were talking about , anything could have been possible.

because the weak nucelar force, the strong nuclear force, gravity, and electromagnetism were exactly the right values, as were other forces such as the Planck Constant and the Close Packing Constant. That allwoed matter to form ,and the correct value for CPR violation allowed a surplus of matter over antimatter..........

You know this from where ?

etc etc. Its called the Goldilocks Effect, everything was just right.

Everything is always just perfect, by chance and sheer coincidence eh,

it must be god.

And that is so unbelievable to someone like yourself?

The answer is there probably billions of universes in the metaverse, and every possible set of parameters has been tried. Some universes are exactly right and life forms, most are wrong and sterile, of dont even get past inflation. So its not a wonder to me.

And where did you base this conclusion on? and if this is not a wonder to you , then your arrogance knows no bounds.

The more interesting question is where does dimensionality come from? The most promising theory is Roger Penrose's Twistor Theory, in which the dimensionality of the universe is a product of two dimension al structures called Spinors. Below the Planck Length 'dimensionality' is meaningless.

Promising?

Another intriguing development of this is that spatial dimensions are interchangeable with time dimensions, iw we have a 3S+T (3 spatial plus 1 time) universe, its possible to have say 2S+2T universe, or any combination of time and space.

Nothing is impossible for The CREATOR (one of gods many names)

Also there s no definitive reason WHY we have 4 dimensions, either. Penroses theory says that time and spatial dimensions may transmute from one to the other. One indication this is happening is that the speed of light may appear to vary, which funnily enough, seems to be have been observed in our universe, its one explanation for why older galaxies are expanding faster then newer ones.

Theres no definitive reasons for a lot of things, But we have them, and try to come up with PROMISING theories to explain them. .

Here is something for you.
The Qur'aan: We verily have created man in an atmosphere, and the heaven He has raised it high, and He has set up the Balance.

Have not those who disbelieved known that the heavens and the earth were one connected entity stitched, then We separated them?...


We verily sent Our messengers with clear proofs, and revealed with them the Scripture and the Balance, that mankind may observe right measure; and He sent down iron, wherein is mighty power and (many) uses for mankind, and that Allah may know him who helpeth Him and His messengers, though unseen. Lo! Allah is Strong, Almighty
We know now that Iron was not formed on Earth but came after.
One piece of info that was definitely not know in the time of the prophet (pbuh), but was revealed to him by the CREATOR.

Conjecture is not a substitute for truth.

 

[sooey]

We know now that Iron was not formed on Earth but came after.
One piece of info that was definitely not know in the time of the prophet (pbuh), but was revealed to him by the CREATOR.

I think you'll find iron was formed before earth and forms a great deal of the earth's core.
Was the CREATOR lying??

 

[Lincsbodger]

I asked because it depends where you start. Ive had several debates with creationists about this .

Who dictates where you start?

umm depends on how sensible a conversation you want to have. You have to sya somewhere' this is the point where it begins, since we know in the past theres a finite starting point

The fact is that life in the universe was inevitable from the point the static parameters of the universe were fixed at about 10^-43 of a second, the point just before inflation.

Who says this?

me, stephen hawking, john lovelace, roger penrose............

AT that point it was inevitable that protons, neutrons and electrons would form,

How are you so sure?

because it was an inevitable consequence. go read quantum physics, the fact were are here, made of atoms, prooves it must be correct

it's the big bang were talking about , anything could have been possible.

no, only certian things were possible under the current theories, again, you need to fill in your lack of knowledge of cosmology and quantum phtsics, im not going to do that, take too long

because the weak nucelar force, the strong nuclear force, gravity, and electromagnetism were exactly the right values, as were other forces such as the Planck Constant and the Close Packing Constant. That allwoed matter to form ,and the correct value for CPR violation allowed a surplus of matter over antimatter..........

You know this from where ?

from read current theories on quantum physics, this really is getting tedious, if yo uwant to check GO READ QUANTUM PHYSICS AND COSMOLOGY!! You think im making all this up ??

etc etc. Its called the Goldilocks Effect, everything was just right.

Everything is always just perfect, by chance and sheer coincidence eh,

you missed the point, or ignored it, congrats.

it must be god.

And that is so unbelievable to someone like yourself?

The answer is there probably billions of universes in the metaverse, and every possible set of parameters has been tried. Some universes are exactly right and life forms, most are wrong and sterile, of dont even get past inflation. So its not a wonder to me.

And where did you base this conclusion on? and if this is not a wonder to you , then your arrogance knows no bounds.

i base my conclusion on my knowledge of current theories of quantum physics and cosmology, which, if you want to have a debate on this subject you need to GO READ so you know what were talking about

The more interesting question is where does dimensionality come from? The most promising theory is Roger Penrose's Twistor Theory, in which the dimensionality of the universe is a product of two dimension al structures called Spinors. Below the Planck Length 'dimensionality' is meaningless.

Promising?

you know a better one?

Another intriguing development of this is that spatial dimensions are interchangeable with time dimensions, iw we have a 3S+T (3 spatial plus 1 time) universe, its possible to have say 2S+2T universe, or any combination of time and space.

Nothing is impossible for The CREATOR (one of gods many names)

good. as you are enlightened, explain dimensionality to us

Also there s no definitive reason WHY we have 4 dimensions, either. Penroses theory says that time and spatial dimensions may transmute from one to the other. One indication this is happening is that the speed of light may appear to vary, which funnily enough, seems to be have been observed in our universe, its one explanation for why older galaxies are expanding faster then newer ones.

Theres no definitive reasons for a lot of things, But we have them, and try to come up with PROMISING theories to explain them. .

so do that, explain dimensionality. or did you just want to criticise without offering any other testable theory, ie you're full of **** ?>

Here is something for you.
The Qur'aan: We verily have created man in an atmosphere, and the heaven He has raised it high, and He has set up the Balance.

Have not those who disbelieved known that the heavens and the earth were one connected entity stitched, then We separated them?...


We verily sent Our messengers with clear proofs

[/quote]show us the proof of dimensionality, comeon, hows it work, why is the 4, why is 4 dimensions manifestly convariant?

, and revealed with them the Scripture

nope, nothing in the scriptures to explin the granularity of time of the dimensionality of the universe, failed

and the Balance, that mankind may observe right measure; and He sent down iron, wherein is mighty power and (many) uses for mankind, and that Allah may know him who helpeth Him and His messengers, though unseen. Lo! Allah is Strong, Almighty

We know now that Iron was not formed on Earth but came after.
One piece of info that was definitely not know in the time of the prophet (pbuh), but was revealed to him by the CREATOR.

aand apart from the ramblings of a bunch of uneducated peasant from 1800 years ago, your proofs are............

Conjecture is not a substitute for truth.

Neither is a work of fiction and ramblings..........




jeeez, how come i got saddled with the god looney...............