Sorry, Politics

[danechip]

Sorry for being stupid.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-61456677

Does the IRA run ireland?

My dad and almost me, Belfast in 80's?

Dan.

 

[blup]

No, but its involvement in the Irish war of independence gave what is now known as the the republic of ireland independence from the united kingdom in 1922. It is likely to achieve the same for the remainder of ireland in the next 10 to 20 years.

Blup

 

[transam]

Sinn Fein was (is ? ) the political wing of the IRA

 

[danechip]

Thankyou Blup and Transam.

 

[Vinty]

No, but its involvement in the Irish war of independence gave what is now known as the the republic of ireland independence from the united kingdom in 1922. It is likely to achieve the same for the remainder of ireland in the next 10 to 20 years.

Blup

It was universal suffrage that gave Ireland a form of independence.

 

[Vinty]

Sinn Fein was (is ? ) the political wing of the IRA

Sinn Fein is the IRA without their hoods on.

 

[noseall]

It is likely to achieve the same for the remainder of ireland in the next 10 to 20 years.

Blup

I think Bozza and his merry band of Brexers are urgently speeding up that process.

 

[Deleted member 18243]

Sinn Fein is the IRA and is the de facto ruling authority in Northern Ireland, having won it from Britain by violent means. Decent folk in Southern Ireland want nothing to do with them, just like decent Scots distance themmselves from the SNP. The British government is craven and always gives in to violence. The last PM to put the IRA in its place was Thatcher.

 

[Odds]

Sinn Fein is the IRA and is the de facto ruling authority in Northern Ireland, having won it from Britain by violent means. Decent folk in Southern Ireland want nothing to do with them, just like decent Scots distance themmselves from the SNP. The British government is craven and always gives in to violence. The last PM to put the IRA in its place was Thatcher.

'Won it by violent means', you say. Of course, the Plantation of Protestants in the region was done with a polite, 'excuse me', was it?

Power Sharing in NI is the only way to maintain a fragile peace and i'm not confident Boris and his wrecking crew are subtle enough to settle an accord over this bloody Protocol without annoying one side or another. It's hard enough to deal with SF or Ulster Unionists without adding the EU into the stew.
So, who's going to be the lucky recipient of another English 'settlement'?
Catholic Irish, of course.
T'was ever thus.

The British government is clueless and always takes the easy way out.

 

[Vinty]

Won it by violent means', you say. Of course, the Plantation of Protestants in the region was done with a polite, 'excuse me', was it?

The history of Ulster didn't begin with the so called Plantation.
This event has been mythologicised by Nationalism to promote a very dubious race theory and to justify IRA violence.
The so called native Irish are an ethnic mixture from previous migrations from Britain and Europe.
A lot of the so called 'Planters' themselves were Roman Catholics, mostly reiver families from the Anglo/Scottish border, this explains why so many Ulster Catholics have British surnames.
Migration between Ulster and Scotland had been going on for 1000's of years before the Plantation.
The MacDonalds who ruled county Antrim had been importing Scots into their territory centuries before this so called plantation.

 

[Odds]

The history of Ulster didn't begin with the so called Plantation.
This event has been mythologicised by Nationalism to promote a very dubious race theory and to justify IRA violence.
The so called native Irish are an ethnic mixture from previous migrations from Britain and Europe.
A lot of the so called 'Planters' themselves were Roman Catholics, mostly reiver families from the Anglo/Scottish border, this explains why so many Ulster Catholics have British surnames.
Migration between Ulster and Scotland had been going on for 1000's of years before the Plantation.
The MacDonalds who ruled county Antrim had been importing Scots into their territory centuries before this so called plantation.

Yes indeed.
And this is what every discussion on NI ends up becoming: a history lesson.
You cannot understand the current problems without a working knowledge of Irish history and to fully explain it will only end up muddying the water. Both sides have their version of events; who-did-what-to-who...and when, and it's never constructive when the government get involved because they'd really like everyone there to keep schtum and accept the status quo.
One of the ways forward is for each side to make a concession, such as Fenians giving up their mandate to learn Gaelic in schools and Unionists to stop bloody marching wherever they like.
Good luck with that.

Brighter people than Boris de Piffle have tried and failed, and i have no confidence in this government negotiating through this tangled web without ripping damn great holes everywhere.

 

[blup]

It was universal suffrage that gave Ireland a form of independence.

And don't forget universal suffrage will deliver a united Ireland.

Blup

 

[diy_fun_uk]

I saw a tv piece the other evening and they were interviewing younger Irish folk. Many of them were saying they don't want to engage with all this and simply want to live in a united Ireland where your religion etc doesn't matter.

I'm usually a pessimist but maybe, just maybe, as the years roll by more and more will hold this view and the often challenging dynamics in Ireland will lessen. Then the realist within me kicks in and I suspect if we could see 50 years in the future, much of the challenges will remain.

 

[blup]

Many younger people, of all beliefs or none, identify with a united Ireland plus the catholic population is increasing in size proportional to other groups, so demographics suggest an inevitable increase in support. The overall politics seem to be against any referendum at the moment.

Blup

 

[Deleted member 18243]

younger Irish folk. Many of them were saying they don't want to engage with all this and simply want to live in a united Ireland where your religion etc doesn't matter.

Young folk are all idealists and liberals! Great fun but they know nothing.