soundproofing advice needed

[DavidA1982]

Hi all

I live in a 1930s semi, with a boiler in the back bedroom, which is the one we use. The boiler is on the party wall, in the alcove. We have two noise problems that I'd like to sort out, but I'm concerned that what I want to achieve is basically impossible without significant work. The problems are:

1) Next door. They've got a baby, and seem to know nothing about parenting. Lots of talking with raised voices at all hours, talking to the baby and playing with him throughout the night etc. They wake us up on a regular basis, and the baby is not really getting in to any sort of routine because they just keep playing with it at 2am, so it could go on for a long time yet. We've spoken to them about it and they are apologetic, but they won't be changing any time soon. I'd like to soundproof the party wall in our bedroom to shut out as much of the noise as possible

2) the boiler. It's a combi, so any time we turn on a tap, or the heating, it makes a lot of noise - enough to wake us up. I'd like to build a sound-insulated boiler cupboard around it.

The problem, as I see it, is that to have any chance of effectively soundproofing the party wall to block out the noise of next door, I'd need to take the boiler off the wall - something we don't want to do just yet as it will go in the kitchen when we extend the house next year, but until then there is nowhere else to put it.

Can anybody think of a way to protect against both noises? Could I soundproof the party wall (but not behind the boiler), and then put a boiler cupboard around the boiler and overlapping the soundproofing on the wall?

Thanks

 

[Blagard]

<snipped>We have two noise problems that I'd like to sort out, but I'm concerned that what I want to achieve is basically impossible without significant work.

I don't like being the bearer of bad news, but you are right that to achieve a meaningful improvement would almost certainly require significant work. There are simply so many ways the sound could be transmitted including via the floor and ceiling voids.

I get the feeling that moving to a room away from the party wall is not practical in your circumstances?

 

[noseall]

I get the feeling that moving to a room away from the party wall is not practical in your circumstances?

Exactly what I was thinking.
Sofa bed?

 

[noseall]

Next door. They've got a baby, and seem to know nothing about parenting. Lots of talking with raised voices at all hours, talking to the baby and playing with him throughout the night etc.

I feel the pain.
We hardly got a full nights sleep for the first three years of our second child's infancy.

 

[jeds]

As above, the problem is that sound doesn't just travel directly through walls. Some of it does but some also goes around the sides, over the top and under the floor. First thing I would check is lift a few floorboards and have a look at the party wall within the floor void. Makes sure there are no gaps. Gaps are bad when it comes to sound. There's an old rule of thumb; 90% of sound travels through 10% of gaps. If there are any gaps seal them thoroughly with acoustic foam. Then - if possible - fit some acoustic mineral wool up against the party wall in the void. Just do the best you can. Also check the loft for the same. Seal any gaps. A typical issue is a gap along the top of the party wall where it butts up underneath the roof felt. If there's a very large gap you might have to build it up with masonry. Otherwise seal thoroughly with acoustic foam or otherwise acoustic mineral wool.

A standard treatment for a party wall is build a stud wall up against it but not touching. leave a 20mm gap. Fill the void with acoustic mineral and over-board with 15mm dbcheck plasterboard. (the blue stuff) Your boiler is a problem so the only option is to build a cupboard sealed to the studwork and then you'd have to basically soundproof the walls of the cupboard and the door - main issue being the gap around the door. If you do all that you will reduce sound. The only question is exactly how much?

 

[thedeadzeds]

Hi David,

Essentially you need to build a new stud wall and ensure it is decoupled from the existing wall. You can so this by using resilient channels or by completely decoupling the new walls (so they do not touch the wall or ceiling). This is second very difficult though. Soundproofing is essentially all about mass. The more mass you have the less sound will travel and the cheapest mass is plasterboard

Have a look at this site. This should give you some ideas

http://www.soundstop.co.uk/soundproofing_walls.php

Craig

 

[loply]

Not sure how much this will help but I built a 'double stud wall' once between two units I was splitting, essentially two stud walls not quite touching each other. It was amazingly sound proof.

In your case the problem is the floor and ceiling joists may transmit the sound and then pass it up in to your new 'stud wall'. I would think you need to isolate it from the floor and ceiling somehow but have no idea how.

One thing worth checking is that your loft is fully bricked up from theres (not just partially)?

 

[DavidA1982]

<snipped>We have two noise problems that I'd like to sort out, but I'm concerned that what I want to achieve is basically impossible without significant work.

I don't like being the bearer of bad news, but you are right that to achieve a meaningful improvement would almost certainly require significant work. There are simply so many ways the sound could be transmitted including via the floor and ceiling voids.

I get the feeling that moving to a room away from the party wall is not practical in your circumstances?

Thanks Blagard. It's what I feared, but also what I expected. The two main bedrooms are up against the party wall. The box room, over the front door, just has external walls - but as we are renovating, it is literally a box room right now - it's full, floor to ceiling, with boxes, tools, carpets etc! Also, this noise could go on for years. The baby is 7 months old and the neighbours don't seem to understand that if they keep talking to him and playing with him at 2am, he won't learn the difference between day from night (I have also never seen them take the baby outside. I'm not exactly a nosey neighbour, but in the 6 months or so we've been in the house, we've never even seen the baby next door. We've been around to introduce ourselves - the husband is friendly enough but the wife speaks no English, and just gets flustered when she answers the door!)

Also, I don't really want to be pushed in to the box room to get some sleep when we have two nice big bedrooms we could use.

 

[DavidA1982]

As above, the problem is that sound doesn't just travel directly through walls. Some of it does but some also goes around the sides, over the top and under the floor. First thing I would check is lift a few floorboards and have a look at the party wall within the floor void. Makes sure there are no gaps. Gaps are bad when it comes to sound. There's an old rule of thumb; 90% of sound travels through 10% of gaps. If there are any gaps seal them thoroughly with acoustic foam. Then - if possible - fit some acoustic mineral wool up against the party wall in the void. Just do the best you can. Also check the loft for the same. Seal any gaps. A typical issue is a gap along the top of the party wall where it butts up underneath the roof felt. If there's a very large gap you might have to build it up with masonry. Otherwise seal thoroughly with acoustic foam or otherwise acoustic mineral wool.

A standard treatment for a party wall is build a stud wall up against it but not touching. leave a 20mm gap. Fill the void with acoustic mineral and over-board with 15mm dbcheck plasterboard. (the blue stuff) Your boiler is a problem so the only option is to build a cupboard sealed to the studwork and then you'd have to basically soundproof the walls of the cupboard and the door - main issue being the gap around the door. If you do all that you will reduce sound. The only question is exactly how much?

Thanks jeds. Thanks also to thedeadzeds - I think what you are both suggesting is similar.

We will have the floorboards up in that room soon as a gas fitter is tidying up some pipework in there, so I'll have a look in the floor void then. I've checked the loft- the wall is in decent shape and I can't see any gaps.

As regards building a stud wall - my concern is that the boiler will stay on the 'real' wall, so the stud wall will have a gap in it. This will be overlapped by the boiler cupboard, but it is my understanding that soundproofing is only ever effective if you get it perfect - and having a boiler-sized hole in the stud wall is far from perfect!

I suppose the alternative would be to take the boiler off the wall, soundproof the wall entirely, and then attach the boiler to the new stud wall. I can see two problems with this though: 1) the cost of moving the boiler; and 2) If I'm fixing the boiler to the stud wall, then I imagine the screws fixing the boiler to the wall will go straight through the soundproofing materials.

I'll start with blocking up any holes in the floor void and see if that solves it. I hope so - because if it doesn't, I'm not sure that any attempt to soundproof that wall will work!