spray inner surfaces of gas pipework
- Thread starter DUAL-FUEL
- Start date
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B
breezer
might sound daft, but why do you want to clean the inside of a pipe? (or is it sluged)
If you're REALLY desperate (eg. pipe cannot be replaced, ...), why not shotblast it with something relatively soft to avoid cutting into the copper too much (22mm Cu tube is probably thinner than you think!). if you can get to both ends of it, all you need is a high-output compressor, some odds and ends and the abrasive.
How much is the effective diameter reduced by sulphide? Is this a gas pipe? Should only be thin layer.... Or are we talking large lumps of the stuff causing actual blockage? How will you stop it happening again?
How much is the effective diameter reduced by sulphide? Is this a gas pipe? Should only be thin layer.... Or are we talking large lumps of the stuff causing actual blockage? How will you stop it happening again?
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I'm VERY surprised that you're having this problem at all.
Are you saying that the pipe is actually blocking up with sulphide due to reaction between copper and impurities in gas? Although possible, it sounds unlikely that there could be that much pollution in the gas. How come all your neighbours, Transco and all other gas users in the area are not having major grief?
Are you sure that it's really sulphide?
Are you saying that the pipe is actually blocking up with sulphide due to reaction between copper and impurities in gas? Although possible, it sounds unlikely that there could be that much pollution in the gas. How come all your neighbours, Transco and all other gas users in the area are not having major grief?
Are you sure that it's really sulphide?
I've now reviewed your previous posts about sulphide. With these quantities of sulphide in a pipe presumably between meter and appliance, there's a BIG problem for gas distribution in the area. Steel reacts much more easily than copper so chances are there's much more serious pollution and damage occurring 'upstream' of you.
Also, be careful what you wish for! If reaction with the service pipe is taking pollutants out of the gas, what will happen when you treat the pipe? Maybe the pollutants will then find something else to react with inside the appliance. Gas valve internals? burner?
What's the reaction of the gas supplier? I'd have thought they'd be working VERY hard on a solution.
Gas rigs (presumably including those in Morecambe Bay) have very expensive gas scrubbers to remove various impurities including sulphur from the gas before it ever leaves the rig. There should never be enough in the gas to cause anything like the problems you appear to have.
Also, be careful what you wish for! If reaction with the service pipe is taking pollutants out of the gas, what will happen when you treat the pipe? Maybe the pollutants will then find something else to react with inside the appliance. Gas valve internals? burner?
What's the reaction of the gas supplier? I'd have thought they'd be working VERY hard on a solution.
Gas rigs (presumably including those in Morecambe Bay) have very expensive gas scrubbers to remove various impurities including sulphur from the gas before it ever leaves the rig. There should never be enough in the gas to cause anything like the problems you appear to have.
Sulphide does seem to be a funny one - some folk seem to get terrible trouble.
For what its worth DF I've been very impressed by how dry an aqua-vac leaves pipes. The air flow rate is darned high especially on blow, so everything seems to get blown out or dried out. I reckon if you could do that and then leave it say overnight , or better still warm it up, you'd have it dry.
In my case aqua -vac means the £35 Wickes/Earlex one. Used without any filter it's well wicked. Sucks under-floor heating pipes dry enough to solder.
What's the chemical you're introducing?
For what its worth DF I've been very impressed by how dry an aqua-vac leaves pipes. The air flow rate is darned high especially on blow, so everything seems to get blown out or dried out. I reckon if you could do that and then leave it say overnight , or better still warm it up, you'd have it dry.
In my case aqua -vac means the £35 Wickes/Earlex one. Used without any filter it's well wicked. Sucks under-floor heating pipes dry enough to solder.
What's the chemical you're introducing?
I guess you already looked at the HSE site and the research papers into sulphidation and resulting problems.
It's been educational! I had no idea that so much Hydrogen Sulphide was permitted in supply gas.
I'm not convinced you're heading in the right direction with your pipe-coating idea. If you can treat ALL the copper pipe in a house so that no black dust is formed, then obviously the problem goes away. But what about copper-flashed Bundy tubing and copper pipes inside appliances? What about all the other houses in your customer list?
The 'best suggestion' in the HSE report I had a look at (http://www.hse.gov.uk/research/crr_pdf/1998/crr98164.pdf) was to put an in-line filter in the pipe just before each appliance to catch the dust before it did any harm, pending a general reduction in the permitted level of H2S in the gas. The filter is only to catch the dust, not to stop it forming altogether.
Looks like in certain areas cleaning black dust out of appliances (or their in-line filters) will become an annual event!
It's been educational! I had no idea that so much Hydrogen Sulphide was permitted in supply gas.
I'm not convinced you're heading in the right direction with your pipe-coating idea. If you can treat ALL the copper pipe in a house so that no black dust is formed, then obviously the problem goes away. But what about copper-flashed Bundy tubing and copper pipes inside appliances? What about all the other houses in your customer list?
The 'best suggestion' in the HSE report I had a look at (http://www.hse.gov.uk/research/crr_pdf/1998/crr98164.pdf) was to put an in-line filter in the pipe just before each appliance to catch the dust before it did any harm, pending a general reduction in the permitted level of H2S in the gas. The filter is only to catch the dust, not to stop it forming altogether.
Looks like in certain areas cleaning black dust out of appliances (or their in-line filters) will become an annual event!
copper sulphide is a major prob in my area.to clear the line i use a compressor,fit an inline strainer in the correct orientation have fitted these with a 500 micron filter but the sulphide still passes,spoke to gas supply co and was politely told not our prob.this affects pipes regardless of material copper/blk iron/galv hope this helps
bripl said:
Well, if you compare it to the TV licence (no guarantee of a decent signal) or the water suppliers (no guarantee of water hardness/softness or even a high pressure) then it is fair enough
How do you know when you have a sulphide problem, other than looking down a gas pipe? I have never done this as I am not a corgi, but do hobs stop working, or give out yellow flames?
According to the HSE research paper (already referenced) it's high speed gas flows that tend to pick up the copper sulphide dust off the bottom of pipes and carry it into gas valves, injectors, pilot jets, and other small holes that get blocked. Generally speaking, that means that 'big hitters' such as combi boilers are more likely to be affected than low-volume users like hobs.
As usual in UK, I get the distinct impression that we're in danger of 'sleepwalking over a cliff' with this problem.
I regularly come across boilers which have not been serviced for a considerable time, usually with no ill-effect (Black Dust seems not yet to be a major issue in the SouthEast).
Many of the large service organisations 'service' boilers using flue gas analysers first, so that if the flue gas fits within cetain parameters, the boiler casing is never actually removed!
Few, if any, appliance manufacturers actually fit an inlet filter as standard, so if black dust gets into (eg) the gas valve and blocks it (open or closed!) there's probably no practical way of cleaning it.
The cumulative cost of breakdowns and gas-valve replacements could become a major issue, especially unless and until the manufacturers find a cost-effective way of retrieving and reconditioning failed gas valves!
The HSE stuff on this topic chunters on about changing the maximum permitted level of hydrogen sulphide in the gas but the research quoted was published in 1998 and nothing much seems to have been done since. Why am I not surprised?
Once locally-sourced gas starts to run out and UK becomes totally dependent on gas imported from the East (Russia, etc.), we will be in no position to dictate its quality - take it or leave it! And I suspect that it would be technically difficult to scrub the gas at transmission pressures (100s of Bar) and uneconomic to reduce the pressure in order to scrub it at lower pressure.
As usual in UK, I get the distinct impression that we're in danger of 'sleepwalking over a cliff' with this problem.
I regularly come across boilers which have not been serviced for a considerable time, usually with no ill-effect (Black Dust seems not yet to be a major issue in the SouthEast).
Many of the large service organisations 'service' boilers using flue gas analysers first, so that if the flue gas fits within cetain parameters, the boiler casing is never actually removed!
Few, if any, appliance manufacturers actually fit an inlet filter as standard, so if black dust gets into (eg) the gas valve and blocks it (open or closed!) there's probably no practical way of cleaning it.
The cumulative cost of breakdowns and gas-valve replacements could become a major issue, especially unless and until the manufacturers find a cost-effective way of retrieving and reconditioning failed gas valves!
The HSE stuff on this topic chunters on about changing the maximum permitted level of hydrogen sulphide in the gas but the research quoted was published in 1998 and nothing much seems to have been done since. Why am I not surprised?
Once locally-sourced gas starts to run out and UK becomes totally dependent on gas imported from the East (Russia, etc.), we will be in no position to dictate its quality - take it or leave it! And I suspect that it would be technically difficult to scrub the gas at transmission pressures (100s of Bar) and uneconomic to reduce the pressure in order to scrub it at lower pressure.
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