Stirling Moss

[pipme]

Eve of the brit grand prix ..... BTW, why race in London ? even less chance to o/t just loads of dosh I suppose.
One of the best circuits for the spectator is nearby, Brands Hatch, where one can see an enormous amount of the action from almost anywhere.

Drive of a lifetime !

Stirling Moss and the late, respected journalist, Denis Jenkinson (Motor Sport) as navigator ... Took the mighty Merc' 300sl to victory in the 1955 Mille Miglia .. around 1,000 miles on open roads, (one mountain pass has 87 hairpin bends !!) Their race average, 10 mph greater than the previous quickest ... a smidge over 10 hrs 7 mins including stops !! There is a book by Jenks, was also a tv play many years back.
IMHO greatest drive ever... Less than ordinary roads - More than extraordinary driver !!
Read a little HERE in the final 4 paragraphs.

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[AdamW]

Could you imagine them closing off 1000 miles of roads for a race now! Especially in the UK. How much hassle does it cause when they close off 10 miles?

Brands Hatch is my only racing spectator experience, as a 10 year old. It was brilliant. Never been to Silverstone so can't compare.

Many say the Monaco Grand Prix is the most exciting and demanding, so the London GP would be similar. As I understand it, the emphasis is on having two GPs in the UK though, so keep S'stone or B'Hatch PLUS central London.

 

[pipme]

Could you imagine them closing off 1000 miles of roads for a race now! Especially in the UK. How much hassle does it cause when they close off 10 miles?
Brands Hatch is my only racing spectator experience, as a 10 year old. It was brilliant. Never been to Silverstone so can't compare.
......
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They didn't close the roads for the Millie Miglia !! Which made Moss and Jenk's time so incredible, nearly 100 mph average for 1000 miles with 1954 technology ... 170 mph over blind brows ... with not only other road users, but Italian ones to boot !!

Old Stirling was a racer in the truest sense of the word, there are not many of those around today ... big difference between 'driver' and 'racer' .... Nigel was a racer too, didn't the fans love him ... he gave value for money and has a unique record ... back to back F1 and American titles ... I bet the Yanks loved that !!

Brands = purpose built race track, great for spectators. Silverstone = old airfield, very quick, poor for spectating.
I think Brands was a great 'experience', Silverstone a sobering one !!

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[mildmanneredjanitor]

I'm sure I've heard before that they have to weld the manhole covers down as the huge tyres on a formula car can literally suck the covers up and throw them in the air with the vacuum they create as they pass over!

Any truth in this???

 

[pipme]

Sticky tyres ... reduced pressure under car due to aerodynamics ... surely could lift the odd cover ... not a grating tho' .. but who would take the risk with anything remotely moveable on / in the track ?
I mean, they say an F1 car could run on the ceiling of say, a tunnel, upside down at much less than its max speed due to aerodynamic down force ....

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[mildmanneredjanitor]

I mean, they say an F1 car could run on the ceiling of say, a tunnel, upside down at much less than its max speed due to aerodynamic down force ....

'Up Force' then???

 

[AdamW]

I believe that 70mph is the magic speed where downforce = weight. Hence running upside down the two would cancel.

F1 cars aren't allowed ground-effects undertrays so the risk of sucking up a manhole cover is pretty low, but a risk nonetheless especially when you consider what would happen if the chap behind hit it and launched into the crowd at 200mph.

Welding manhole covers shut: they did that for Dubbyah's Eire/NI visit (I believe he visited both) to avoid a bomb risk. So, it can be done.

As a biker I used to wonder why they couldn't build new roads with the manhole covers on the pavements as they can be pretty lethal especially in local authorities who don't spend anything on roads.

 

[pipme]

I am assured that the 'diffuser' which manages the airflow under the F1 car at the rear is a large contributor to the 'downforce' .
I quote :-
The diffuser is still the greatest contributor towards rear downforce, adding around 55% for a tiny drag penalty. Given the total downforce for an F1, the negative lift from the diffuser would easily be able to suck up a drain cover. Monaco bolt their covers down to prevent them dislodging. .

Interesting ?

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[AdamW]

I stand corrected!

Although I will claw back some dignity on this by pointing out that I referred to undertrays and not diffusers, and said that there was a risk (just a low one)

Probably not a bad idea to bolt down manhole covers in general, although I've never paid enough attention to them to notice if they are or aren't.

 

[pipme]

No, no ... I was also amazed at the total effect of the diffuser !!

Further quote : - .....More, far more. Aerodynamic theory and it's application in F1 has moved on far enough that a modern diffuser which works on the same principle as the old ground effect cars but is limited to starting from the rear axle produces around the same downforce as the full length venturis of the 80s jeez !!
Ex work colleagues say 'not far away from having virtual wind tunnel to replace the real thing ..'

See here, how proposed regs changes will affect diffuser performance proposals

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[AdamW]

Isn't it Indycar where they actually have electrically driven fans sucking the car to the track? I am sure there is at least one form of motor sport that does that. But then in Indy they don't have a lot of the restrictions you get in Formula 1: turbos allowed, yaw control allowed, ground trays allowed, just for a few.

Of course the Mclaren F1 GTR also has this fan-driven active undertray system. But the LM doesn't. How do I know this? I was fortunate enough to work for Mclaren, as a laminator in their Shalford works for a short while, building the F1 LM... Oh yeh!

 

[pipme]

Chapparel (?) Lead the way, in modern times on this stuff, way back, did McClaren have any of the old 'Can-Am' sports racers at their base?
They were awesome on the tracks in the old days.

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[AdamW]

I didn't see any CanAm cars, but the place I worked in was more or less a factory that made all the carbon fibre bits for F1 road cars and F1 cars.

I did go to their Woking works once, where they do all the final assembly but I was too busy drooling at all the yummy cars (got to sit in one and try it out for size too!) to really notice anything else!

If you want your own CanAm car, Ultima Sports makes one that you can buy either as a kit or fully assembled.

 

[pipme]

Nah ... Youv'e heard of 'fire and forget' ? Well the old Niss is 'drive and forget'

Hybrids take up too much time !! This part from here, that from somewhere else ..... Spend more time messing with it than driving !! got the tee shirt ... !! Fun part of the time tho'

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[AdamW]

Nah, the Ultima's aren't hybrids, in fact despite being available as kits, they seem to avoid the term "kit car". The only bits they use from other cars are:

1) Then engine (but then most production cars have engines in common with other cars)
2) The transaxle (ditto)

Check them out here.

On the bit describing the radiator, "Extra core is available for those looking at engines producing more than 550bhp". I like that. They have a standard option for if you want MORE than 550bhp. That's a lot of gee-gees!

In terms of performance per pound, you could probably build a 200mph, 0-60 in 3 seconds Ultima Can-Am for about £30K... Even TVRs don't give you that, but then they are already assembled when you buy them