Surge Protection Devices (SPD) in domestic dwellings - Type 1 or 2 in CU for overhead feed property on TT.

axt

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A thought process that I was wondering if others had also pondered:

Consumer units with preinstalled Type 2 SPDs have become a very common sight since the 18th edition has more or less mandated them, with almost every manufacturer offering them by default across their range now. These are generally single module width plug in devices that sit to the right of the main switch and are fed via a 32A MCB just to the left of the main switch.

The question though, is what to do when a property is fed from a overhead line and is on a TT earth. Regulations would suggest a Type 1 SPD is required for overhead feed as lightining strike is a possibility. The problem is that Type 1 SPDs are 1) 5x the cost than Type 2 SPDs and are always double width. This means that if a standard Main Swich CU is fitted, they would not fit in the space to the right of the Mains Switch without moving everything along, loosing a bus bar position and misaligning the supports for the supply tails (certainly required for TT earth property), and module labelling etc.

There is precious little evidence of Type 1 SPDs being supplied or provisioned for in CUs, and most "Disconnects with Surge Protection" that could be put in line before the CU are also often only Type 2. One would think this would be a very common problem as many properties are fed by overhead lines, or is my interpretation of what constitutes an overhead line too literal - do they mean miles of rural line to a remote farm shack only?

I have a property in mind with at most 75ft of overhead line from a pole, which itself is in the local DNOs transformer enclosure. Washing lines have been known to be longer... Admittedly, the pole of course also feeds other properties and these feeds go for 1/2 mile down the road but my ponderance on what others do on overhead line properties persists. Is it a common occurance to see a readily available Type 2 SPD CU installed in domestic dwellings, perhaps if the risk of lightning strike seems minimal, or is the Type 1 SPD on overhead line feed rigerously abided by and if so how is it typically executed?

What is the feeling about SPDs on a full RCBO CU, where the SPD alone is on a MCB and thus has no RCD protection on its connection wires or operation? If the device fails on its gas tube a continious earth leakage could occur and if a MOV fails slightly could this not consume lots of power over a long term with little oversight? Are SPDs more of a risk or an assured solution in peoples minds?

Thoughts and ponderances please :)
 
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A thought process that I was wondering if others had also pondered:
......
Thoughts and ponderances please :)
Welcome to the forum!
A few initial comments/thought/questions (responses to which may at least help my education :) ) ...

Although my experience is very limited. I personally don't think I have ever heard of Type 1 SPDs being installed in a domestic installation, and I know little about them. However, for a start, this couple of regs in BS7671 ...
534.4.1.3 Where the installation of SPDs is required by Section 443 and the structure is equipped with an external lightning protection system or protection against the effects of direct lightning, Type 1 SPDs shall be installed as close as possible to the origin of the electrical installation.

534.4.1.4 Where the installation of SPDs is required by Section 443 and the structure is not equipped with an external lightning protection system or does not require protection against the effects of direct lightning, Type 2 SPDs shall be installed as close as possible to the origin of the electrical installation.
... seem to suggest that Type 1 SPDs should only be used if there is an "external lightning protection system. Furthermore, this one ..
534.4.1.1 Where SPDs are required:
..........
NOTE: Type 1 SPDs are often referred to as equipotential bonding SPDs and are fitted at the origin of the electrical installation to specifically prevent dangerous sparking which could lead to fire or electric shock hazards. In accordance with BS EN 62305-4, a lightning protection system which only employs equipotential bonding SPDs provides no effective protection against failure of sensitive electrical and electronic systems. Further SPDs (Type 2 and Type 3) are required to protect sensitive and critical equipment (for example, hospital equipment and fire/security alarm systems)
downstream of the origin of the electrical installation.
.... seems to indicate that, even if one does have a Type 1 SPD at the origin of an installation, one also has to have additional Type 2 one(s) downstream "to protect sensitive electrical and electronic equipment" (which is the only purpose of SPDs in domestic installations that we ever seem to hear about !).

I therefore wonder (hence probably need education') why you are talking about Type 1 SPDs ?

Kind Regards, John
 
.... seems to indicate that, even if one does have a Type 1 SPD at the origin of an installation, one also has to have additional Type 2 one(s) downstream "to protect sensitive electrical and electronic equipment" (which is the only purpose of SPDs in domestic installations that we ever seem to hear about !).

I therefore wonder (hence probably need education') why you are talking about Type 1 SPDs ?

Quite a lot of the time when people(installers, wholesalers, even manufacturers sometimes) talk about type 1 SPDs what they are refering to is a device with the functionality of both Type 1 and Type 2 devices (and sometimes type 3 as well)


It is something to be careful of though, as I'm sure you can buy devices (maybe not single phase ones) which are just type 1, which as you say are intended to deal with the worst effects of a lightning stike locally or to the distribution network, but may not reduce it to a low enough level to protect sensitive equipment
 
Quite a lot of the time when people(installers, wholesalers, even manufacturers sometimes) talk about type 1 SPDs what they are refering to is a device with the functionality of both Type 1 and Type 2 devices (and sometimes type 3 as well)

Thanks for the replies!

Indeed, I had the Fusebox SPDCUKITT1 in mind, to fit into a Fusebox 21 way master switch CU (which is a 24p box, with a blank to the right of the main switch for the single width type 2 SPD that would be there if you bought the SPD bundles CU). Hence the pondering on how you would fit a double width Type 1/2/3 (which is what that one above is) in. I have messaged Fusebox to ask them how this is achieved and will report back if I hear from them.

Indeed you can buy a flora pot sized Type 1 only SPDs for your office block incommer, and would then have a Type 2 in CUs further down the line but that's a different animal.

The suggestion that a Type 1 (and implied 2&3) is used on an overhead line fed property is regularly repeated online, a very quick Google of "SPD overhead line property" yields these as a starter for ten:

Lightning Protection only needs to be installed on a domestic installation when the property is directly fed by over head power lines, or has an external lightning protection system (LPS) on the property.

And also here for instance:

What sort of device do I need?

Firstly, we need to ask if the supply is Single Phase or Three Phase.

Is the supply current less than but equal too 125A or more than 125Amp? This will help determine the type of backup protection required.

For overhead supplies, a Type 1 surge device must be used. The supply is likely to be a TT network and if it has been upgraded it may be TNCS, in any event, the same type of SPD can be fitted.

The latest IET standards show two connection types. The CT1 for TN and CT2 is for TT the CT2 can also be used for TN supplies.

The devices that can be used on overhead lines are for the CT2 connection method. They have a gas tube in the neutral pole to stop earth faults.


This second site also details the slightly cryptic CT1 and CT2 wiring requirements, which are important for TT supplies as I believe (?) that CT2 ensures there is no MOV between a current carrying conductor and earth (as in, there is a gas tube in the way).

Again though, these SPD2 modules have become common as anything, SPD1 (+2/3) seems to be fairly obscure and unplanned for in domestic CUs by my looking...
 
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I'm wondering if I probably ought to have a type 1 at the orgin. I have got a type 2 at the main DB in the garage (fed by switchfuse at orgin) which I added when I put the zappi in. The only overhead bit in the supply to my house is the ABC above my front garden, but the lines continue along the road (The feed comes under the road on a wavecon from the tx opposite, goes up the pole in front of my house, where it attaches to lines running parrallel with the road, with the ABCs to mine and my neighbours house being attached at the same pole. Well at least I know for sure I'm not on a looped supply!

Probably should, its a village at the top of a hill - yet when we moved here, they still insisted on doing a search for flooding risk!
 
I'm wondering if I probably ought to have a type 1 at the orgin. I have got a type 2 at the main DB in the garage (fed by switchfuse at orgin) which I added when I put the zappi in. The only overhead bit in the supply to my house is the ABC above my front garden, but the lines continue along the road (The feed comes under the road on a wavecon from the tx opposite, goes up the pole in front of my house, where it attaches to lines running parrallel with the road, with the ABCs to mine and my neighbours house being attached at the same pole. Well at least I know for sure I'm not on a looped supply!

Probably should, its a village at the top of a hill - yet when we moved here, they still insisted on doing a search for flooding risk!
This sounds like a similar arrangement, and indeed I am also looking at a switch fuse to a garage, though I am tempted to opt for a RCD Fuse (SF0100RA Time Delay / S Curve rather than SF0100) to protect the feed to it (which would then also allow me to dispense with the vintage Wylex 100ma RCD in the meter tails if desired as all outgoings would be behind an individual RCD or RCBO).

One other ponderance on the SPD front.
The requirements allow for one not to be fitted if the customer signs to stipulate they understand the risks and do not wish to have one. On this basis, if an installer was to declare to a customer that they are on overhead lines and require a Type 1 SPD at ~£150 they are more likely to decline and sign it away. However, could it be then suggested that they could have a Type 2 SPD, even though the wording is that a Type 1 must be used on an overhead feed? Maybe this is why one rarely sees Type 1/2/3 devices installed, they get kicked back and a Type 2 put in as a comprimise with a note that a Type 1 was rebuffed?
 
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I'm still fairly confused (probably aka 'ignorant'!) ...
The requirements allow for one not to be fitted if the customer signs to stipulate they understand the risks and do not wish to have one.
Indeed. I meant to mention that. As a result, as you go on to say ....
On this basis, if an installer was to declare to a customer that they are on overhead lines and require a Type 1 SPD at ~£150 they are more likely to decline and sign it away. However, could it be then suggested that they could have a Type 2 SPD, even though the wording is that a Type 1 must be used on an overhead feed?
... if the owner is free to give an 'informed') decision not to have SPD protection at all, then they surely are equally free to acceot a Type 2 one when a Type 1 may be more appropriate. However ...
..... even though the wording is that a Type 1 must be used on an overhead feed?
Where is this "wording"? If it's in a reg in BS7671, then I must have missed it. If it does say that, how is it to be reconciled with 534.4.1.4 (which I quoted above) which says that one should use a Type 2 if there is not an "external lightning protection system" (and assuming there is no such system)?

It seems that we are talking about the possible effects of lightning on overhead supplies. 'Direct' lightning strikes on overhead LV cable are probably rare, since they are not very high - not even as high as the poles that support them, let alone surrounding buildings (or their chimneys) and trees etc. - and if, despite that, there were a 'direct lightning strike, I imagine that everything in sight (probably including any SPDs) would get vapourised, such that the presence/absence/type of SPDs would probably be fairly moot.

My supply is overhead (ABC cable) for about 50-60 metres, and the HV supply to my village is also overhead. Opinions about 'surge protection' in domestic dwellings obviously vary a lot (and, as those here know, I am personally very sceptical), but I am perfectly happy to not have any SPD protection. Over the years (I've been here for nearly 40), trees in the vicinity have been struck by lightning, but I presume that the power lines have never been struck (else I would presumably know!), and in those 40 years I have suffered few, if any, instances of 'premature failure' of electronic equipment (of which I have a lot). I therefore personally remain very comfortable without any SPD protection.

Kind Regards, John
 
Hi John,

To be honest, the wording is mainly what I have come across on various websites (as per examples in above post) which simply state that properties on overhead lines should have a Type 1 SPD. I am inclined to agree with you (especially as the bulk of these websites are either SPD manufacturers and their data sheets, or articles guiding on SPDs themselves) that this may be a convenient interpretation by them to try and satisfy your quoted 534.4.1.3.

Where the installation of SPDs is required by Section 443 and the structure is equipped with an external lightning protection system or protection against the effects of direct lightning, Type 1 SPDs shall be installed as close as possible to the origin of the electrical installation.

So, who says whether protection against direct lightning is required or not? A risk assessment? Opinion of the electrician at that moment in time...?
 
Hi John,

To be honest, the wording is mainly what I have come across on various websites (as per examples in above post) which simply state that properties on overhead lines should have a Type 1 SPD. I am inclined to agree with you (especially as the bulk of these websites are either SPD manufacturers and their data sheets, or articles guiding on SPDs themselves) that this may be a convenient interpretation by them to try and satisfy your quoted 534.4.1.3.
... "Where the installation of SPDs is required by Section 443 and the structure is equipped with an external lightning protection system or protection against the effects of direct lightning, Type 1 SPDs shall be installed as close as possible to the origin of the electrical installation."
So, who says whether protection against direct lightning is required or not? A risk assessment? Opinion of the electrician at that moment in time...?
Agreed. Indeed, I don't really understand what is meant by "or protection against the direct effects of lightning" that isn't covered by "an external lightning system". All I can think of would be an ''internal' lightning protection system! What do you think it means?

Kind Regards, John
 
Agreed. Indeed, I don't really understand what is meant by "or protection against the direct effects of lightning" that isn't covered by "an external lightning system". All I can think of would be an ''internal' lightning protection system! What do you think it means?

Kind Regards, John

I think that to provide protection against the direct effects of lightning, one would likely need something more than a Fusebox SPDCUKITT1. Probably a new pair of underwear as well.
It is all a bit vague and open to interpretation...

Another thought is that you could likely replace a good few red flagging SPD2 devices for the cost of a SPD1 device?
 
I think that to provide protection against the direct effects of lightning, one would likely need something more than a Fusebox SPDCUKITT1. Probably a new pair of underwear as well. It is all a bit vague and open to interpretation...
Quite. As I said, when it comes to 'direct' lightning strikes, then I think one will usually have much better/important things to worry about than SPDs.
Another thought is that you could likely replace a good few red flagging SPD2 devices for the cost of a SPD1 device?
Indeed and, in terms of my usual way of thinking, even with Type 2 devices, I have to wonder how the cost of installing one in every domestic installation in the UK (quite probably over £1 billion) compares with the cost of replacing the electronic devices allegedly killed by 'surges'!

Kind Regards, John
 
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