Swap dial thermostat with programmable type

[Loofah]

I'm planning on swapping my dial type thermostat with a programmable version, likely the Salus SQ610.
My set up at the moment is that I have two dial thermostats, one for the rads and one for the UFH in the kitchen which is the one I want to switch out. The two stats go to a controller which also handles the HW.
If I simply swap the thermostat to the programmable version would I leave the UFH channel as permanently on and let the new thermostat control things or will I also need to change out my controller?
I should mention all current controls are Continental / Continal and the Salus thermostat seems to be sold as that brand too so have assumed any compatibility should be ok

 

[ianmcd]

you will regret going any where near Salus anything, they are absolute shoite, have a look at the EPH range if you dont want smart control they are in the lower price range but reliable, Salus as a pro I completely refuse to install without a disclaimer where the customer has to buy it and no warranty from me whatsoever, when it stops working a few weeks after then they have to pay me a call out fee, you have been warned

 

[Loofah]

Ok, that's a top tip! Hadn't realised they were that bad. I'll find an alternative.

 

[Deleted member 267285]

To answer part of your earlier question, yes you could leave controller set to permanently on and let the thermostat settings take over.

 

[Loofah]

To answer part of your earlier question, yes you could leave controller set to permanently on and let the thermostat settings take over.

Ah good, that's a relief. I had visions of rewiring half the system at one point!
Many thanks.

 

[Loofah]

What might be some other recommendations for brands please? Oh, and does it have to be a specific UFH thermostat or will any programmable type be suitable?

 

[ericmark]

What do you want the thermostat to do? I use programmable TRV heads, I have 9 at the moment, one Kasa, three Energenie, five eQ-3 all stand alone i.e. they will not turn the boiler on/off, only the heating to that room.

It would clearly be better with linked TRV heads, but they cost more, and now I have 9 do I really want to change them for the linked type?

So the question you need to ask is how far do you want to go with the control? I made a mistake, but idea was correct, I bought Energenie TRV's first rather expensive and was told they would work with Nest, well in a way they do, but wrong way around. Instead of the TRV telling the thermostat/hub what is wanted the thermostat tries to tell the TRV what is wanted, and most of the time fails.

So we have all sorts of options, geofencing, learning, or simple programmed. I am still using a dial thermostat 'Nest' it has all sorts of options, however really it is designed for either hot air or open plan, as it has no ability to link TRV heads since Google took over. I tried with cheap it was a load of rubbish it lost the RF link many times, the previous one was very good with a non modulating boiler, it used a mark/space ratio to reduce the hysteresis (over shooting) but not suitable for a modulating boiler as it messed up the boilers own system, this cheap thermostat around £35 worked very well, but hard wired, once you go for wireless you need a thermostat with two way coms, or some other fail safe, there is no best, it depends on what you need, EPH, Nest, EvoHome, Wiser all can work with Opentherm, but that's no good if boiler does not have it.

Hive is an odd one out, it will link to TRV heads as long as under 22ºC so in the hall likely works well, living room not so good.

But the scene has changed Moes, Tuya and many others are so much cheaper than the traditional makes we have seen in the UK, the one I was looking at there were three versions one electric, one for UFH and one for standard boiler, last two letters say which is which, but when you can get a smart thermostat for under £50 one has to ask why pay £250? I did a google for "smart thermostat tuya for boiler" and there is one that looks just like Nest for £45 unlike nest it needs a back box etc. But I have had my Nest fall off the wall when some one slammed the door.

So it seems like sticking a pin on the page of options to select replacements.

 

[Loofah]

What do you want the thermostat to do? I use programmable TRV heads, I have 9 at the moment, one Kasa, three Energenie, five eQ-3 all stand alone i.e. they will not turn the boiler on/off, only the heating to that room.

It would clearly be better with linked TRV heads, but they cost more, and now I have 9 do I really want to change them for the linked type?

So the question you need to ask is how far do you want to go with the control? I made a mistake, but idea was correct, I bought Energenie TRV's first rather expensive and was told they would work with Nest, well in a way they do, but wrong way around. Instead of the TRV telling the thermostat/hub what is wanted the thermostat tries to tell the TRV what is wanted, and most of the time fails.

So we have all sorts of options, geofencing, learning, or simple programmed. I am still using a dial thermostat 'Nest' it has all sorts of options, however really it is designed for either hot air or open plan, as it has no ability to link TRV heads since Google took over. I tried with cheap View attachment 319539 it was a load of rubbish it lost the RF link many times, the previous one View attachment 319540was very good with a non modulating boiler, it used a mark/space ratio to reduce the hysteresis (over shooting) but not suitable for a modulating boiler as it messed up the boilers own system, this View attachment 319541cheap thermostat around £35 worked very well, but hard wired, once you go for wireless you need a thermostat with two way coms, or some other fail safe, there is no best, it depends on what you need, EPH, Nest, EvoHome, Wiser all can work with Opentherm, but that's no good if boiler does not have it.

Hive is an odd one out, it will link to TRV heads as long as under 22ºC so in the hall likely works well, living room not so good.

But the scene has changed Moes, Tuya and many others are so much cheaper than the traditional makes we have seen in the UK, the one I was looking at there were three versions one electric, one for UFH and one for standard boiler, last two letters say which is which, but when you can get a smart thermostat for under £50 one has to ask why pay £250? I did a google for "smart thermostat tuya for boiler" and there is one that looks just like Nest for £45 unlike nest it needs a back box etc. But I have had my Nest fall off the wall when some one slammed the door.

So it seems like sticking a pin on the page of options to select replacements.

In this instance I'm only looking at a hard wired programmable type for the UFH. I don't touch it most of the time and heat changes are so slow I don't need it 'smart'. Frankly it should have had a programmable one fitted at the outset but we live and learn with builders!

 

[ericmark]

The UFH version of the moes has a under floor sensor so it can reduce the hysteresis,

Do be careful to get the one to suit your system, click here for the instructions. Googling the part number these are cheaper than other programmable thermostats so why not get one which is Smart?

 

[Loofah]

I found this on the Moes and it seems good but frankly I got lost in the second half when it started on about ZigBee, coordinator, home assistant etc. I'm sure it's simple if you work with these things but it read as confusing to me. What the hell is a coordinator?!

https://smarthomescene.com/reviews/moes-zigbee-smart-thermostat-bht-002/

I keep going back to just wanting something I understand and will last

 

[Loofah]

As I hate not knowing how things work I've done a bit of reading. Would I be correct in that the coordinator is basically a network interface powered by a USB and that you use an app to link the thermostat or whatnot with the coordinator? So two pieces of hardware to buy

 

[ericmark]

Yes likely you will also need a hub to be able to control from phone, and I will admit the hubs are a nuisance, I now have 4, of which 3 simply plug in only one needs hard wired LAN to router.

It seems the normal wifi is power hungry, so using hubs reduced the power required, I started with Energenie, I had a problem, mother had alzheimer's and would go walk about, and so I needed an alarm so I could go and persuade her to return, alarm was upstairs so it would wake us in the night, however one would see some one at the door down stairs and have to run upstairs before answering the door or the alarm would sound. So I used smart sockets.

It then grew, next were smart TRV heads, then smart light switches and when she died and we moved here we brought it with us.

It has not been all plain sailing I will admit, but this house with 10 rooms not including the bathrooms, toilets, utility room, hall and landing we don't really want to heat all rooms together, so we got 5 bluetooth TRV heads at £15 each in 2019, they work without blue tooth unlike the originals I bought, the bluetooth just makes it easy, but will only pair with one phone. So when the carpet fitters damaged one of the original energenie I wanted to replace with one which we both could access, so moved to TP-Link (Kasa) which was £42 for head and hub, I also use the hub as a door bell sounder, the button was an extra £12.

The TRV's mean really the wall thermostat does very little, I will admit I made a mistake get the Nest Gen 3 wall thermostat, I was told it would work with energenie, seems when google took over Nest the ability was removed. However other reason for Nest was two wires main house to flat where boiler is would work central heating and DHW with an oil boiler running on C Plan.

In my last house open plan one wall thermostat would control all, but this house has doors.

 

[Loofah]

Apologies on not replying here, life keeps getting in the way. I'm deciding against the smart type, it's just not needed for the UFH.

As I don;t want to cut into a solid wall to have a recessed 'flush fitting' type I'm just looking at the EPH CP4M that @ianmcd suggested as a brand, or the Honeywell T4. They look to have same functionality so if anyone has a better experience over the other, or a reason one is not suitable for UFH I'd be happy to hear it.

 

[Loofah]

This is the wiring on current stat if that helps

 

[Exedon]

Apologies on not replying here, life keeps getting in the way. I'm deciding against the smart type, it's just not needed for the UFH.

As I don;t want to cut into a solid wall to have a recessed 'flush fitting' type I'm just looking at the EPH CP4M that @ianmcd suggested as a brand, or the Honeywell T4. They look to have same functionality so if anyone has a better experience over the other, or a reason one is not suitable for UFH I'd be happy to hear it.

The eph stats are fine use them regularly cost effective 5 year warranty good kit.