Syphon Vs. Flapper

[Nigel_Cro]

Hi Guys,

Fairly simple question for all you experts...

I need to replace the flush valve in a high level cistern, at the moment there is a syphon valve in there and my first instinct was to go like for like and put a Thomas Dudley Turbo in.

But, I have read a couple of comments where people are saying that they would always replace a syphon with a flapper valve, there has been mention of the Fluidmaster Flush Valve.

I like the thought of how easy it is the maintain the Turbo, but I also like the simplicity of the flapper. Would a flapper work ok in a high level cistern?

What does the team think??

Thanks in advance.

 

[Steelmasons]

Holding the flush button would be a chore within itself along with the added benefit of the flapper ending up half way down the flush pipe...

 

[bazdaman]

Could always use the bog brush to press the flush?

 

[Nigel_Cro]

Holding the flush button would be a chore within itself along with the added benefit of the flapper ending up half way down the flush pipe...

Could always use the bog brush to press the flush?

Chaps,

I would like to thank you both, most earnestly, for taking the time out of your busy days to offer me the benefit of your knowledge and experience in attempting to answer my question. I am constantly heartened by the attitudes of professionals in any calling when asked to help out those less knowledgeable than themselves who give of their time so freely.

You two gentlemen are obviously right at the top of your game, so I am even more grateful for your advice.

If I interpret your advice correctly, installing a Flapper valve would be inadvisable as the only method of operating such a mechanism is by the use of a flush button encapsulated within the body of the cistern itself. I heartily agree that, if this were indeed the case, it would be a most inconvenient way to operate a flush. I would obviously need to leave a step ladder handy so that my wife, who is only 5'4", could deploy the flush correctly. How my 3 year old granddaughter would deal with it, the Lord alone knows.

However, I may be in the rare position here of being able to add the smallest grain of knowledge to your mountainous accumulation.

According to Fluidmaster, in their installation instructions here

- http://www.fluidmaster.com/downloadable/download/sample/sample_id/250/ -

it would appear perfectly feasible to operate the flapper by the use of a chain attached to what I now know is called the Tank Lever. In fact it would appear to be their preferred method of operation. Therefore, by merely attaching a chain to the other end of the Tank Lever, even my wife should be able to operate the flush mechanism, without resorting to any kind of height enhancing mechanism (she isn't very good with heights, so it would have been cruel to make her scale a ladder).

Once again, thank you so much for your valuable contribution to my plumbing knowledge. As my Grandfather used to say "Show me a person who has never made a mistake, and I will show you a person who has never achieved very much".

I sincerely hope that you are never in a position where you need my professional help, you would be in a very bad place indeed were you to be so, but please, feel free to ask, I like to help others, it is what gets me through a busy day.

May your life be like a wildflower, growing freely in the beauty and joy of each new day.

Nigel

(Just in case you missed it, sarcasm is the word you are looking for)

 

[JohnD]

Plumbers are sometimes like that, unfortunately, although some of them are grown-ups.

A Flapper gives a more forceful flow, so is useful in a close-coupled WC with a low-water-content cistern that is not very good at clearing the pan.

However high-level cisterns usually have a good powerful flush due to the head of water and the large cistern, so I don't believe there is any advantage to you. An ordinary Dudley syphon would be fine.

 

[Nigel_Cro]

Thanks John,

I think I am coming round to that way of thinking, that is the Syphon over the Flapper, rather than the theory that some plumbers are grown ups.

The Dudley Turbo drew my eye due to the fact it is so easy to maintain without draining the tank. I certainly don't need any more force behind the flow, I would have to nail the lid shut!

Thanks again,

Nigel

 

[Stadan20]

Dudley syphon , just get the pro 88 I think it's called

 

[Steelmasons]

Ok let's word it differently...
The velocity of the water discharging down the high level flush pipe could cause the flapper to dislodge due to negative pressure/syphonic action.
The other issue being the flapper will slam down on its seating causing damage to the flush push buttons.

 

[bazdaman]

Also with the weight of the handle and chain, the flapper can pass water, and not shut off properly, most high level cisterns have a handle that if swung about will KO you