Telephone directly connected to incoming cable

[henry13]

Doing some work on an office that has necessitated removing all wiring, but a temporary phone setup is required.

Know nothing about phones, but here goes:

Need to run a pair from the BT junction (?) box immediately inside the building, (the box with lots of slots in it and all the building's incoming phone wiring) to a temporary surface mount box with secondary socket.

Everything else was chucked away, so unfortunately at the moment don't have options and no point in calling BT, place is a tip, they will call them when we are done.

I still have the stubs of the old wire connected at the JB so I know which terminals I need to connect to at the JB, but knowing nothing about phones - which terminals do I use at the secondary socket?

Sorting this out will get some irritated people off my back for a while, so any advice will be highly appreciated!

 

[bernardgreen]

I still have the stubs of the old wire connected at the JB

A photo will help to give the right advice

which terminals do I use at the secondary socket?

You will need a master socket as the JB will not have the bell capacitor, in service resistor and surge suppressor necessary for the line to work and test correctly ( when OpenReach test the line ).

That said the JB is almost certainly the property of OpenReach ( BT ) and should not be tampered with.

 

[henry13]

Hi, thanks, some more info below (and questions)

I still have the stubs of the old wire connected at the JB

A photo will help to give the right advice

which terminals do I use at the secondary socket?

You will need a master socket as the JB will not have the bell capacitor, in service resistor and surge suppressor necessary for the line to work and test correctly ( when OpenReach test the line ).

That said the JB is almost certainly the property of OpenReach ( BT ) and should not be tampered with.

There are two wires coming (well used to) from the JB the only thing I know is that they are the phone line I am interested in.

Thanks for the info re the master socket, I thought it was not chucked out but we can not find it anywhere, probably some other tradesmen did so.

Would any master socket (ebay) do?

Something like http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SINGLE-MA...ITCH-/120878244529?pt=UK_Phones_PhoneLeads_RL

The ownership, should or shouldn't, at this point in time are not the main concern! Having a temporary working phone is!

Thanks again

 

[bernardgreen]

I would avoid cheap items like that as the quality is often dubious and early failure is not un-common.

Best go for a known brand such as the NTE5 have way down this page

http://www.solwise.co.uk/telesun-extension-sockets.htm

( there are other sources )

The two wires from the JB connect to the two terminals on the back part on the NTE5

 

[henry13]

Thanks for that, TBH long term reliability is not a concern and due to the fact that I need this asap I actually just bought one (of the ebay cheapies) reckoned if you said "no way" it's only a couple of quid. Reading up in the meantime I gather that the two wires will connect to T2 and T5 on the master and it should work - for now!

Kindly let me know if I am mistaken and thanks again...

 

[RF Lighting]

Yep terminals 2 & 5. If it doesn't work swap them over, it won't do any harm if it's wrong first time.

 

[henry13]

Lovely, you have just converted me from today's zero to tomorrow's hero in about one and a half hours!

Thanks again all!

 

[drgl]

You will need a master socket as the JB will not have the bell capacitor, in service resistor and surge suppressor necessary for the line to work and test correctly ( when OpenReach test the line ).

The surge arrestor is not required for the line to work. They were deleted from the NTE5 years ago.

 

[drgl]

Yep terminals 2 & 5. If it doesn't work swap them over, it won't do any harm if it's wrong first time.

It won't do any harm which ever way around it is! The line is not polarity sensitive.

 

[AlanE]

It won't do any harm which ever way around it is! The line is not polarity sensitive.

This is true but there was a range of 'dial up', not ADSL, modems that wouldn't work if the line polarity was not correct.

Just a point to bear in mind if it is intended to use an old modem prior to enabling broadband on the line.

 

[drgl]

I've not come across one in over 30 years!! There were apparently some fax machines too (makes sense, nothing more than a modem) but again never come across one.

 

[bernardgreen]

The surge arrestor is not required for the line to work. They were deleted from the NTE5 years ago.

True, the phone will work when there is no surge suppressor.

The original surge suppressors large junction devices which put a significant capacative load on the pair. They were thought to affect ADSL and VDSL signals while the risk of damage to telephones ( and routers ) from over voltage was considered insignificant. Hence the design was changed to omit the surge suppressor.

Some routers do have a surge suppressor fitted, but this a very low capacity device which has no significant loading on the pair.

 

[kbdiy]

This thread has gone way over the top. The OP only wanted to lash up a temporary phone ffs

 

[henry13]

Seem to have hit a brick wall!

For some reason the line appears to be dead. Ish.

All the connections seem fine, double, triple checked them, even directly wired up incoming to phone cable so that there are no doubts about the connection.

Managed to find the original master socket too, so tried with both the new and the old socket.

I tried one thing. Using a multimeter, I tested for voltage across the BT JB terminals of a known working phone line - well it's actually got a modem connected to it.

50v give and take.

Across the terminals of the phone that I need to sort out, nothing. In fact there is nothing across any other terminals but that is no surprise as there are only two lines connected (or should be, dammit!) to BT's junction box.

1) Does this mean that there is some trouble from BT's side?
2) Or should there not ordinarily be a voltage except, thought crossed my mind, when the phone is ringing (which I did not test for) or when a modem is connected?

For further info if I try dialling the number, I get a ringtone. But nothing is happening on two different phones test-connected.

I need enlightenment!

 

[AlanE]

Are these lines supposed to be live?

If yes and 50Volt not present across the pair then there may be a break in the cable prior to the master socket.