Tenants have been meddling with electrics on boiler

[lovelyjob]

Hi all. My brother and me rent a property out through an letting agent. Yesterday we had our annual gas check done and the gas safe guy told us that the boiler electrics had been changed and an infra red thermostat had been wired in. As he had originally fitted the boiler, he also pointed out 2 wires that were now twisted together and wrapped with pvc tape....(I'm guessing possibly the connection to the previous thermostat). This, he said, was dangerous and the boiler should be checked out by an approved electrician and certified as safe...in fact he refused to put back the boiler metal cover, just in case.
The tenant, who refuses to pay for this to be done...says that his mate fitted the thermostat and he is a qualified sparks. He may be lying, he may not. The agent recommends that we allow the tenant to talk to his 'mate' and get him to sign off the boiler and thermostat amendment as safe.
My question is..what should I request from his 'mate' in order to be completely satisfied the boiler is safe....his qualification certificates?...a letter from him?...what?

 

[Taylortwocities]

My brother and me rent a property out through an letting agent.

You obviously pay the letting agent a fee to manage the property.

Now is the time for him to earn his money. Get another agent if he fails to do his job!

 

[pjcomp]

Talk to the agent about the letting contract - there should be a clause that says the tenant shouldn't be making changes to the property without your (the landlord's) express permission. Tell the tenant you're getting in an electrician to check it over (the agent should have one on the books if you don't know one yourself) and that the tenant will have to pay for this as they're in contravention of their lease and liable for eviction.

pj

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

The tenant has no right to alter the electric is your property without your say so, this should be documented in writing and any alterations made should also be documented in the form of either an electrical installation or a minor works certificate. It is time for your to put down your foot with the agent and I would want this either sorting FOC or money given to you to do this.
If the tenants leave do not let the bond to be return in full until either this is resolved or you deduct the cost of fixing it.

 

[lovelyjob]

thanks for quick reply guys. All this has been considered. We are aware about getting permission before doing stuff, but up to now the tenants have been good and I'm trying to avoid getting heavy. I realise the agent, who receives their fee has a vested interest in keeping things sweet...but as they say...taking the legal approach is long and difficult and almost always, the guilty party is given the opportunity to put things right first anyway.

They suggest it's Far better to let the tenants have the opportunity to prove the alterations were done by a qualified guy and for them to get the dodgy wiring sorted out. In principle, we have nothing against them adding this thermostat system..but were ****ed off they didn't ask first and now it seems to be potentially dangerous.

So, back to my question...what can I request from them/him to prove the boiler has been checked...and all is now good and safe?

If of course this is not forthcoming...I will get heavier with them. They are putting themselves, my property and my insurance at risk.

 

[EFLImpudence]

I'm a little concerned about your 'gas safe guy'.

he also pointed out 2 wires that were now twisted together and wrapped with pvc tape....(I'm guessing possibly the connection to the previous thermostat). This, he said, was dangerous

Could he not have fitted connectors?

and the boiler should be checked out by an approved electrician and certified as safe...

Isn't a heating engineer qualified to do this.

We're always told by the plumbing and heating forum that heating engineers are far superior to electricians,

in fact he refused to put back the boiler metal cover, just in case.

That would seem to be dangerous in itself.

Just in case of what?

 

[flameport]

You need a minor works certificate from the person who installed the thermostat, which will describe the work done and confirm it complies with BS7671.

However wires twisted with tape will not comply, so they either will not provide the cert, or the person supplying it will be lying.

As pointed out already - this is something your agent should be dealing with, not you.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

So, back to my question...what can I request from them/him to prove the boiler has been checked...and all is now good and safe?

You require at least a minor works certificate but an electrical installation certificate will also do.
I would insist on the electrician providing evidence that he is qualified to do this work and also request a copy of his public liability insurance! Also if you can get his details you can there see if he is a member of competent persons scheme here; http://www.competentperson.co.uk/.
You could take up issue with the electricians scheme provider (if registered) regarding unsafe work and no certs being handed over.
But first you require evidence to say whether it is or is not safe, are those twisted wires actually live? or just the remains of the cables going to the room stat, which would be dead?
Just a little thing to add, did your tenants actually inform the electrician that this property is not theirs put belongs to a landlord/landlady?

 

[lovelyjob]

I'm a little concerned about your 'gas safe guy'.

he also pointed out 2 wires that were now twisted together and wrapped with pvc tape....(I'm guessing possibly the connection to the previous thermostat). This, he said, was dangerous

Could he not have fitted connectors?

and the boiler should be checked out by an approved electrician and certified as safe...

Isn't a heating engineer qualified to do this.

We're always told by the plumbing and heating forum that heating engineers are far superior to electricians,

in fact he refused to put back the boiler metal cover, just in case.

That would seem to be dangerous in itself.

Just in case of what?

Thanks for all the replies guys. Re the above, and I am guessing here... the gas safe fella was there to do a gas safety check,( he's also my brother's father in law btw, not that it should make a difference)..and only had time to do the gas check. He did not have time to check what had been meddled with and I GUESS he wasn't going sign off the electrics without a thorough inspection, or whether he's qualified to do so. I think he didn't put the cover back on in case the wires somehow touched it.. I'm not entirely sure what he is qualified to do...apart from the gas check of course, but will ask.
I take on board all the comments especially the reticence of the agent.

Prenticeboyo...I've no idea if the so called fitter knew it was a rented property..or whether the fitter actually exists. My neighbour, who happens to rent properties, is of the opinion that the response may well be...the fitter works for a big company and cannot individually issue a certificate..which might reinforce the idea that he does not actually exist at all.
Thanks for the replies. Very very helpful.

 

[SimonH2]

Speaking as a landlord myself, I'd be spitting feathers.
Since the allegedly qualified person that did it left questionable wiring, I'd insist on having independent verification of the work's safety.

Your agent should be doing this, if not then SHOUT at them and threaten legal action against them if they don't start acting in YOUR interest. I've already dumped one agent for "lack of proactiveness", and the agent I currently use on the flat won't be getting renewal business (and I'm waiting for them to so much as put one toe over the line again so I can cancel the current management contract).
You may take from that that I'm not impressed with agents, and it's clear that I am not alone in that.

If the tenant is awkward, you just point out that they've breached the tenancy agreement - I assume there is a "no f**king about with stuff" clause in it. Since they have interfered with the electrics and boiler, therefore you are perfectly entitled to satisfy yourself that both are still safe - regardless of the fact that the tenant did it, YOU still have a legal duty of care to ensure that all services are safe.

If they are still awkward, then a Section 21 notice is in order - you can always cancel it if they see sense.

But I would absolutely not allow a tenant to remain who makes unauthorised modifications and then refuses to cover my costs incurred in ensuring that things are OK. Of course, if they come along and ask then I'd consider any reasonable request - though I'd probably insist on fitting the stat myself or using someone I know and trust to do a decent job (and not necessarily at the tenants expense - I'd consider whether it was an improvement to the property.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Prenticeboyo...I've no idea if the so called fitter knew it was a rented property..

it's one of the first question I ask and I get a signed contract from the property owner

or whether the fitter actually exists.

You need a name and some details, even if they work for large company, the company still has a responsibility if this work was supervised by them.

My neighbour, who happens to rent properties, is of the opinion that the response may well be...the fitter works for a big company and cannot individually issue a certificate.

There is no reason that they cannot issue a certificate for this type of work regardless if they work for a large company or not!

which might reinforce the idea that he does not actually exist at all.

Well if that is true, you need to take up issue with the tenants as there has been some untruths told!

 

[OwainDIYer]

You need a name and some details, even if they work for large company, the company still has a responsibility if this work was supervised by them.

My neighbour, who happens to rent properties, is of the opinion that the response may well be...the fitter works for a big company and cannot individually issue a certificate.

There is no reason that they cannot issue a certificate for this type of work regardless if they work for a large company or not!

However, they probably won't have their own insurance, probably haven't declared the money to the taxman, and probably don't want to leave a paper trail.

 

[mfarrow]

Big firm means big man doing testing and everyone else doing donkey work. If the tenant's friend is the latter then he may not be able to do the testing.

Ask for qualification certificates and maybe ring some independant body like building control and see if they'd approve his qualifications for a self-cert. Or ask on here!

I wouldn't worry too much about his insurance, the importance is ensuring you have a safe and compliant installation.

 

[bernardgreen]

The bottom line is that the tenants have arranged for alterations to be made to the landlord's property. Any sensible letting contract will have a clause to prohibit that type of activity.

If that clause exists then the tenants can be required to pay for all costs due their alterations.

Let them get away with this and they may take greater liberties in the future.