The end to having central heating boilers?

[tim west]

http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages...ogy.html?in_article_id=481996&in_page_id=1965

 

[empip]

Nah, all the free stuff has been ring fenced...

http://www.steorn.com/

 

[megawatt]

Balenza beat you to this one Tim ... //www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=690543#690543

 

[tim west]

oops mind you the article is dated today

 

[JohnD]

The device seems to break the fundamental physical law that energy cannot be created from nothing - but researchers believe it taps into a previously unrecognised source of energy, stored at a sub-atomic level within the hydrogen atoms in water

and when you've finished that, build me a perpetual motion machine

 

[megawatt]

My wife thought she'd found one when we rode a tandem ... Until I explained that I was actually doing all the pedalling

 

[tim west]

isn't voyager1 a perpetual motion machine?

 

[solo]

My daughters' gob is a perpetual motion machine. Never stops, even in her sleep!

 

[Balenza]

He he. If you snooze you lose.

Looking at the estimated price though I think it will be a complete waste of time.
and energy.

 

[Space cat]

Has anybody noticed the similarities between this new device and the now infamous cold fusion experiment of 1989. Both involve using electricity to create monatomic hydrogen (deuterium in the early version) and both have been rushed out with little or no understanding of what's really going on.

I'll repeat what I would have said back then if I'd been there. Show me some helium, or any other nuclide that you didn't start out with, and I'll believe it!

 

[tim west]

So is the consensus that it is all a modern form of alchemy and has no real substance in an actual working model being created? or is it progress in science and physics that has just uncovered a process that was always there but laid undiscovered or not proven until recently?

 

[Space cat]

My money's on it being something to do with metal hydride formation, coupled with the fact that monatomic (aka nascent) hydrogen is extremely reactive stuff. It used to be a standard school chemistry experiment to watch it reduce potassium permanganate or ferric chloride in a way that molecular hydrogen gas couldn't.

I've heard one somewhat far fetched theory that the zeroth energy level of the hydrogen atom - the one in which the electron orbit would have zero radius and which doesn't exist - might be split by the immense electric fields that exist inside crystals. This would create an orbit just outside the nucleus which, the theory goes, could be occupied by an electron. The energy released by an electron falling into this orbit would be very large by chemical reaction standards. Whether this could happen or not, the fact remains that you would either have to put energy back in to release the hydrogen from the metal or else replace the metal. Palladium is an expensive fuel!

 

[anobium]

Space cat wrote

I've heard one somewhat far fetched theory that the zeroth energy level of the hydrogen atom - the one in which the electron orbit would have zero radius and which doesn't exist - might be split by the immense electric fields that exist inside crystals. This would create an orbit just outside the nucleus which, the theory goes, could be occupied by an electron. The energy released by an electron falling into this orbit would be very large by chemical reaction standards. Whether this could happen or not, the fact remains that you would either have to put energy back in to release the hydrogen from the metal or else replace the metal. Palladium is an expensive fuel!

You took the words right out of my mouth.

 

[Steve]

Anyway this is all so silly. You put in electrical power, and get out 150-200% more power than you put in.

Need I mention heat pumps? You put in electrical power and get out 400% more power than you put in.

These guys are barking up the wrong tree entirely, as well as claiming to have built a perpetual energy machine. Anyone who believes it . . .

 

[Space cat]

Need I mention heat pumps? You put in electrical power and get out 400% more power than you put in.

Heat pumps do work but you don't get more power out than you put in. The extra power is in the heat you sucked out of the cold side. There is no indication of any kind of heat pump in either the cold fusion experiment or this new gadget.

What I think is that they've fallen into the same trap as those guys with their tank full of heavy water. They've stumbled on a chemical reaction they don't understand and greed has driven them to rush out a prototype of a device that will ultimately fail to deliver. Investors beware!

Incidentally, the cold fusion incident created such a stir that firms like BP and British Gas were rushing to buy electrochemical test equipment. I know because I used to work for a small company that made it.