The Price is right ?

[dunny123]

I was asked to provide an estimate for a ground floor extension/garage conversion + kitchen refurb:

Kitchen: Supp. & install: 8 x firerated cast GU10 downlights (6 main kitchen, 2 extension) approx 4 New socket outlets where required; Switched spurs for extraction fan & hob ignition, washer + dishwasher; New cooker circuit in 6mm² and isolation switch; Mains powered battery backup heat detector. Remove/move socket outlets and spurs where required. Tidy/remove diy/non compliant wiring/jb's etc. Remove wall light.

Shower Room & Lobby: Supply & install: 7 x firerated cast GU10 downlights (5 lobby, 2 shower room) and associated switches; Timed extract fan and isolation switch

Study: Supply & install 6 x double socket outlets; 1 x fused spur for boiler; 6 x firerated cast GU10 downlights and switch.
Supply & install salus remote prog. stat for boiler.

Supply & install main equipotential bonding to incoming gas and water services
Supply & install additional Hager dual 30ma RCD protected consumer unit; 100A 2 pole henley block, 100A isolator switch; Meter tails and earthing conductor. (For new circuits as above, existing is board rewirable wylex)

The kitchen existing ceiling was removed and the rest is new build so first fix fairly straight forward, all accessories in GET plastic moulded. I estimated 4-5 days total with test & cert and £550 in materials, total at around 1650 (not vat reg).

Builder has said not even close, way out. What you think ?

 

[ColJack]

location?

london is more expensive than elsewhere..

what does the builder think it sould be?

3 days at 100 a day?

 

[dunny123]

location?

london is more expensive than elsewhere..

what does the builder think it sould be?

3 days at 100 a day?

Coventry. I think he thought less than a grand. The problems are
a) he hasn't grasped the 17th and the need and therefore cost of "RCDing"
the new stuff and sorting out existing supply and bonding.
b) His old sparky was the semi retired 100 a day classic
c) He wants to add his "mars bar" on top but he always under estimates the electrics and quotes for the whole job before its been estimated.

As it happens I've first fixed it (before he read his email estimate Id sent a week before) and he is only wiling to pay for that. Good luck to him finding the 20 odd downlights now above plaster without my plans

 

[ricicle]

Never work for builders !

 

[ColJack]

if he's already engaged your services ( ie said go ahead and get started ) then he accepted your quote, even if he hadn't read it.. it's not your fault he didn't read it..

i'd also like to see him get a sparky sign off on your cable routes without seeing them..

I'm not questioning your competence, but would you trust someone elses work if you were signing the certs?

he should also need your signature on the installation cert since you are the one responsible for the design and at least part of the installation..
charge him for the plans, drawings, calcs and a part filled in 3 part cert..

 

[dunny123]

Never work for builders !

Good point However it is generally nice work, no furniture, carpets etc just plasterers chasing you round and builders pulling ceilings and walls down around you while the plumbers bang rads over your first fix

Seriously thoigh just needed a sanity check on the price, seem ok ? I know "cant see it cant quote it" but sheer materials alone inc. cable adds up (Id forgotten the other 2 interlinked smokes, also)

 

[dunny123]

if he's already engaged your services ( ie said go ahead and get started ) then he accepted your quote, even if he hadn't read it.. it's not your fault he didn't read it..

i'd also like to see him get a sparky sign off on your cable routes without seeing them..

I'm not questioning your competence, but would you trust someone elses work if you were signing the certs?

he should also need your signature on the installation cert since you are the one responsible for the design and at least part of the installation..
charge him for the plans, drawings, calcs and a part filled in 3 part cert..

All good points ColJack, I doubt he gives a toss tho as long as someone will sign it off. I for one wouldn't second fix someone elses work, for both the reasons you outline, and also the sheer ball ache of working out whats what ! In fact in future I may employ some secret code and label the cables all wrong !

 

[ColJack]

if your materials add up right, then that's £1100 for 4-5 days work?

that's £220 a day based on 5 days, 8 hours a day = £27.50/hr or is that based on more hours a day?

is that just you or you and a mate?

£220 a day seems a little steep if it's just you..

I can see charging that a day for single day jobs where you might not have a full week booked, but if it's a solid weeks work then to be reasonable I'd say £160 ( = £20/hr on 8 hr day )

that's £800 labour + £550 materials = 1350... bung 50 on for paperwork / notification / certificate etc.. £1400..

write in a clause that the quote is based on the number of days estimated and any extra days caused by unforseen circumstances out of your control will be charged at the rate shown ( such as the plasterer turns up a day late making your final fix a day late.... the plumber drilling through a cable to mount a towel rad etc.. )

 

[dunny123]

Its me and a mate. I based it on 5 days, 160 for me 80 for him therefore 30 an hour. I guess the question then is, is 5 days too much ? Problem is as you can guess this particular builder is not the best project maanger so theres lots of alterations, time wasted while other trades are also trying to do their bit. I have been on his jobs with builders, plumbers, plasterers, kitchen fitters and yes, painter all in an extension.

I based it on 2 days for 1st fix, 2 days for 2nd fix (lots of downlights to mark out/cut/wire, and fiddly kitchen stuff grovelling in cabinets etc. That allows a day for CU, test and certification.

 

[sparkyspike]

Sounds fine to me.

 

[ColJack]

a day for 2 of you to test 2 rings, 1 light cct, 1 cooker cct?

sounds about right then..

 

[securespark]

Why fire-rated?

 

[ColJack]

new build? garage conversion ( fire rated roof, but surely no longer required to be so if it's not a garage anymore? ) builders specs..

 

[dunny123]

a day for 2 of you to test 2 rings, 1 light cct, 1 cooker cct?

sounds about right then..

No...A day to terminate 2 socket radials, 2 lighting radials, a smoke radial and a cooker radial into a new CU, install an isolator switch to the main tails, then to a henley block then to new CU (and old CU)...then to test and certify.

 

[dunny123]

Why fire-rated?

I know, it doesnt have to firerated as its not a fire rated ceilings. But I find that the building inspectors wrongly get hung up on it its not worth the hassle. Also don't need hoods, are fully enclosed other than ventilation holes and are in my opinion a better all round luminaire. I also get them for around 8 quid with the VAT so generally charge them to customers at a tenner - less than screwfix/B&Q etc.