time delay switch wiring with in line switches

[sparkybird]

Morning everyone!

I've got to replace the lighting in a communal hallway and I want to minimise the damage to ceilings as I have very little access above and the cornicing is really nice! I was therefore planning to install feed through or in line switches ie with the N at the switch. Can someone please help my little brain out? I THINK that in order to do this I have to run 3 core between the switches, for L, N and switched L.

Is this right?

The switches to be installed are
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/EK400A.html

Many thanks = SB

 

[tonyelectric]

Why are you taking a neutral to the switch, these are mechanical and don't need one, they have terminals L1 & L2 like a normal one way, if theres more than one they are linked in parallel

 

[sparkybird]

Hi Tony

Yes, I realise that but I'm trying to avoid the loop in system at the lights to minimise damage (caused by running cables from light to light). Using the in line switching I can just run a single t and e from each switch to the light

The N's would be blocked together in each switch box.

Or is there a better way of doing it?

SB

 

[tonyelectric]

Ah, I see what you are doing, in that case, thinking as I type you want a permanent live running switch to swith via L1 terms., A neutral as you say and a switched live linking terminals L2 and the lights also taken off L2, that way when one switch operates the L2 at all switches becomes live.

Is it snowing in your patch, bloomin well is here

 

[sparkybird]

Exactly! So in that case I do need 3 core between the switches...

No more snow here (S London) but freezing! glad I packed in the on site work last week - just got about a zillion quotes to get done....

SB

 

[bernardgreen]

Just a thought.

As you will have neutrals at the switch have you ( or the client ) considered using an electronic delay switch instead of the pneumatic ones. These are more tamper resistant than the pneumatic ones. No more jammed in buttons and lights on 24 hours a day.

And a nice little neon to enable one to find the next switch in the dark before tumbling down the darkened stairs.

 

[tonyelectric]

Yep 3 core indeed!, i'm in Salisbury at the moment and its starting to come down heavy with the wind towards london so stand by

 

[sparkybird]

thanks for replies and suggestions

Bernard - yes good idea, they're a little more expensive but will save on maintenance in the long run plus they look quite smart

tony - I'll get my snowshoes on then!

Take it easy all
SB

 

[sparkybird]

ooo I've just realised that these don't even need a N

How does that work???? (must be magic!)

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/DNTLSW10ILM.html

 

[Wontdothatagain]

Why not do away with the switchs all together and just fit a time delay PIR lamp


http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/50207987/Ceiling_Light_with_PIR_Sensor.html

 

[OwainDIYer]

How are your switches/lights currently wired up? Do you have conduit switch to switch or light to light, etc?

If you can get a cable run mains-switch-switch and another cable run mains-light-light, then at the "mains" location you can use the Danlers switch you mention, or similar, and at the switch locations just have 'slave' switches which are a lot cheaper, and more vandal-resistant.

Also consider PIRs or other occupancy detectors. They stop the lights going out when someone's halfway down the stairs, help visitors who don't have to look for a switch when entering through the common front door, and make it harder for anyone to loiter on the stair with the lights out.

Some door entry systems can have a second button on the phones with a relay to turn on stair lights too, so residents can turn on the lights and look through their door spyhole before opening the door.

The various "fire" cables can be expensive but can be a neat way of running one multicore cable and I think look neater P-clipped to the wall with screws rather than T+E. [/list]

 

[sparkybird]

thanks again for suggestions, folks.

It's a rewire (old rubber cable existing) so I can do what I like! Client want's cables chased into walls and is quite traditional so I think switches are the way to go..

You'll see in my OP that I want to avoid looping in at the lights to minimise damage so I think that the PIR option is a non starter pretty much

 

[bernardgreen]

ooo I've just realised that these don't even need a N

How does that work???? (must be magic!)

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/DNTLSW10ILM.html[/QUOTE]

They take the 230 volt across the open contacts to charge a small battery ( or large capacitor ) to provide the power to the electronic timer when the contacts are closed and there is no 230 volts across the switch.

That slight trickel of power when the switch is OFF might be enough to cause energy saving lamps to flash when they should be OFF

The switches you mentioned might not work when two or more are in parallel. It mentions slaves for multi-switching applications. You would need to get the ones that do use a neutral or are designed to work in paralllel with each other.

 

[bernardgreen]

The PIR idea has merits. But you would have to ensure that the PIRs were placed to ensure any one coming out of a door would be detected before they could reach any hazard. ( stairs etc ).

For a hotel corridor of 12 rooms ( 6 each side ) that meant 4 PIRs to ensure guests had light within seconds of leaving their room. It was found cheaper to fit magnetic sensors to the doors which operated a 12 volt circuit to trigger the timer for the lights. Suspended ceiling made the wiring very easy.

 

[OwainDIYer]

ooo I've just realised that these don't even need a N

How does that work???? (must be magic!)

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/DNTLSW10ILM.html[/QUOTE]


The switches you mentioned might not work when two or more are in parallel. It mentions slaves for multi-switching applications. You would need to get the ones that do use a neutral or are designed to work in paralllel with each other.

The wiring instrictions linked from TLC page shows them in parallel, or using slaves.