Timeswitch with daylight savings to Control Outside Lamposts

[FozzieBear]

I am hoping the electricians on this forum have experience in modern control gear and able to offer some advice on the following.
We have two lamp posts at the front of our Village Hall to provide illumination to the forecourt for hall users at night. They are currently controlled by a basic Sangamo mechanical time switch which has no options for daylight savings and has to be reset twice each year to correct the time but also to alter the switch on time as the evenings get lighter. This is a pain in the **s as the time switch is not easily accessible and it really needs changing more regularly during the summer.
One option would be to fit a stand-alone PIR to control the lights but this would mean that they are on from dusk until dawn rather than until midnight when they are currently set to switch off. Not only would this waste electricity but they also shine all night in the bedroom windows of the adjacent cottages.
I assume you could use a combination of a PIR to turn on the lights and time switch to turn them off at midnight but the time switch would still require changing twice a year when the clocks change.
Is anyone aware of any time switches (electronic??) which have a built in daylight saving setting to avoid having to change the times twice per year? Alternatively are there any other possible solutions anyone can think of?
I did consider remote management using the internet connection and a bit of software which might switch them on and off remotely but thought this was overkill!!!

Fozzie

 

[bernardgreen]

You could use something from here

http://www.sangamo.co.uk/shop/solar___astro_time_switches-list.aspx



There is no need to alter the settings for Daylight Saving as the sun doesn't change its clock, only us humans change our clocks.

 

[JohnW2]

One option would be to fit a stand-alone PIR to control the lights but this would mean that they are on from dusk until dawn rather than until midnight when they are currently set to switch off. Not only would this waste electricity but they also shine all night in the bedroom windows of the adjacent cottages.
I assume you could use a combination of a PIR to turn on the lights and time switch to turn them off at midnight but the time switch would still require changing twice a year when the clocks change.

I assume you mean some sort of photocell, not a PIR.

I have such a 'dual arrangement' for some of my outside lights. A photocell turns them on at dusk, and a timeswitch (which switches 'on' around midday) turns them off around midnight. When I say 'around midnight', the timeswitch actually switches them off at around 11pm during the winter and hence (without any re-adjustment of the clock) around midnight during the summer. Given that 11pm/midnight is arbitrary, anyway, this compromise works fine for me.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

You could use something from here
http://www.sangamo.co.uk/shop/solar___astro_time_switches-list.aspx

As far as I can see, they are just a much more expensive way (albeit offering some advantages) of achieving the functionality that can be achieved with a photocell (with lights staying on from dusk until dawn), which is not what the OP wants.

There is no need to alter the settings for Daylight Saving as the sun doesn't change its clock, only us humans change our clocks.

The problem there is that because the humans change their clocks, they go to bed at a different 'sun time' in summer and winter. The light shining through their bedroom windows up until 'their midnight' for half of the year would shine through it until 'their 1am' for the other half!

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

I don't think Fozzie meant daylight saving but that they are only operated by a timeswitch.

In the Winter they would be required to be on at 4 ish and in the Summer not until 9 or 10.

 

[Taylortwocities]

HAve a look at the Steinel Nightmatic 3000 photocell

This comes on at dusk and has a night economy mode

Instructions at

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technical/DataSheets/Steinel/NW3000a.pdf

As supplied, the light switches itself off at approx. 1.30 a.m. but can be varied.
The electronic system contains no clock. All the time values are calculated by the microprocessor according to the twilight conditions. In doing so, seasonal modifications in the light conditions are automatically taken into
account.

 

[JohnW2]

As supplied, the light switches itself off at approx. 1.30 a.m. but can be varied. The electronic system contains no clock. All the time values are calculated by the microprocessor according to the twilight conditions. In doing so, seasonal modifications in the light conditions are automatically taken into
account.

I agree that's a verbatim copy of what the instructions say, but I do wonder what it actually means, and how it really works!

In any event, this 'night economy mode' only lasts until 4-5am, which means that the lights would come back on for several hours on winter mornings, which I don't think is what the OP wants.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Taylortwocities]

I was hoping somebody would install one and tell me if it works!

 

[JohnW2]

In any event, this 'night economy mode' only lasts until 4-5am, which means that the lights would come back on for several hours on winter mornings, which I don't think is what the OP wants.

Ah - I've just noticed that this behaviour of coming back on in the morning can be switched off. So, if the 'night economy mode' really works 'as it says on the tin' (somehow!) and can be adjusted to switch off at roughly the time the OP wants (around midnight), this device might suit his needs.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Taylortwocities]

Aye, just spotted that too. Could be a candidate..

 

[JohnW2]

I was hoping somebody would install one and tell me if it works!

Indeed!! I really can't see how the microprocessor can work out when is 1:30am (or whatever it's set to) solely on the basis of 'twilight conditions'. If it measured the length of the day (from dawn until dusk), it might be able to make a reasonable estimate of the time of year, hence expected times of dusk, and hence when 1:30am was likely to be, but it all sounds a bit iffy ... and, of course, to fully satisfy the OP's requirements, it would have to know that "human's 1:30am" suddenly changes, relative to the sun/seasons, twice per year!

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Aye, just spotted that too. Could be a candidate..

Possibly - although, as I've just written, the weakness might well be that (even if it's as clever as is being suggested) it does not change it's idea about "1:30 am" (or whatever) when humans change their clocks!

As I said, if the OP is happy to have the lights going off at 11pm in winter and midnight in summer (or some other times, one hour apart), then the simplest and cheapest option is probably, like my setup, to just have a photocell and a timeswitch.

Kind Regards, John

 

[bernardgreen]

(with lights staying on from dusk until dawn), which is not what the OP wants.

1 ON/OFF models: The ON operation always tracks SUNSET while the OFF operation can be made either to track SUNRISE, or to occur at a fixed time between 8:30pm and 1:00am (early OFF)

The fixed OFF time may be a dis-advantage and of course sometimes it is dark before sunset. The advantage of this is that it is ( or might be ) a direct plug in replacement for the existing Sangamo timer.

 

[JohnW2]

1 ON/OFF models: The ON operation always tracks SUNSET while the OFF operation can be made either to track SUNRISE, or to occur at a fixed time between 8:30pm and 1:00am (early OFF)

Fair enough. I thought I'd looked quite hard, but I obviously missed that. However, it still doesn't (I presume) address the OP's primary desire, which is to get the 'off' time autmatically changing to/from GMT/BST at the appropriate times of year.

Kind Regards, John

 

[FozzieBear]

I assume you mean some sort of photocell, not a PIR.

Thanks John yes you are quite correct I mean Photocell

Many thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread. It never fails to amaze me how many knowledgeable people are prepared to help others on this forum so thanks again.

OP's primary desire, which is to get the 'off' time automatically changing to/from GMT/BST at the appropriate times of year.

Yes this is the crux of the matter. I can use a Photocell to turn the lights on automatically which can be set according to the light level at the time of year. In winter the lights will obviously come on earlier as the days are shorter in the summer they will turn on later.
Used on its own a photocell will turn on at the set light level and stay on all night until it starts to get light again at dawn. Unfortunately this is not desirable as it wastes electricity and shines in the windows of the adjacent cottages all night.
If used with a timeswitch the photocell will turn it on and the timeswitch can turn it off. Unfortunately most time switches have to be adjusted twice per year when the clocks go forward and then back again by 1 hour. In non critical situations an hours variation is not a problem but either switching off 1 hour early or staying on until 1am is not desirable for a venue with an entertainments licence as it disrupts either the hirers who are plunged into the dark at 11:00 or disrupts the neighbours sleep until 1:00 am.
I have found a central heating controller Siemens which automatically accounts for the daylight changes but only has low switching current, and I would have thought there were other electronic time switches out there which would do the same.
However the Steinel Nightmatic 3000 on the face of it looks like it will fit the bill and at less than £30 is worth trying. If it works as suggested this would resolve a problem with other external lights too.
Many thanks yet again
Fozzie