Toilet flush and low water attention disorder.

[Northbeach]

I find writing titles akin to dropping a message into somebody's birthday card...never quite get it right...anyhow...

Had standard bathroom suite installed last year (b and q job) - looking back I wished I'd read up a bit on bathroom installation and minor plumbing myself - I had to correct a couple of things the 'engineer' had installed despite not really having a clue myself.
I completely tiled the floor and ceiling and all looked ok.
However a few months later I realised that the water in the pan was far too low; soon afterwards it began to take an age for the cistern to fill back up. I had a look inside the cistern and fiddled (tech term?) around with the push button flush mechanism. Unfortunately a little piece of plastic which is attached to the push button (I had unscrewed this) had fallen down the blinkin overfill tube - gone forever - I have had to tie string around the mechanism in order to flush.
It also appears that the cistern is constantly being 'fed' water (hissing water fill - I assume the water is constantly dropping down the overfill?)

Questions are:

1: Is it possible to get hold of a plastice element which fits inside the push button flush? If not then I've been thinking about purchasing a dual push button flusher (more efficient than the standard - are these easy enough to install - will they fit a standard loo?)

2: How would I set about raising the lever of the water in the pan? I tried one or two things to no avail (admittedly I was guessing in the dark).

3: I suppose changing the flush sysem as mentioned above would sort this anyhow but I was wondering how to stop the constant drip of water into the cistern.

Apologies if I've fired off a whole bag of questions here folks and have missed out specific detailing!

Many thanks.

 

[Nige F]

Possible ans. to 2........water in pan too low.....is the system vented properly .or has someone fitted an Air admit. Valve where it shouldn`t be ..you should see a 4inch pipe somewhere on the premises, above rooflineGutter level with a cage on it . ie. open to air . Previous poster had same cock up , by so called builder.

 

[Northbeach]

Sounds familiar Nige - I'll have a look as soon as I can and report back - definitely the pipe you're talking about but I will look for the vent.
Nothing was added (i.e. outside pipe) during the adding of the new bathroom, the toilet was moved further from the wall (the wall which the air vent would be) by around 2 feet (and the previous loo water level was fine).

...Valve where it shouldn`t be ..

Can this be fixed by me?

Cheers.

 

[Northbeach]

There is a pipe which starts about the roofline gutter extends to connect to the toilet (soil pipe?) and then into the ground. This was never altered when the new toilet was fitted though - any other likely cause of the low water? I thought it might be a water pressure issue but not too sure how that works?

Dual push button flush easily fitted and recommended?

Cheers.

 

[ChrisR]

Changing the flush mechanism is an ok diy job as long as you can see how your loo is put together. The cistern will probably have to come off, look for wing nuts under the cistern. ( If you're dead lucky the flush mechanism unscrews from inside and the big nut underneath stays put, and fits the new one. ) You'll have to turn off the cistern supply of course.
Phone around for a merchant selling "Geberit" ones - or other decent make. Forget Roca.

If you fill the pan with a jug, does the level come up? The water is sitting in a U bend, so the level is fixed. Unless there's material "wicking" the water over the outlet hump. Lack of any vent could mean the exiting water pulls the water over the hump a bit (syphon action).

 

[Nige F]

Good advice from Chris ...and yes you`ve got a vent

 

[Northbeach]

Phone around for a merchant selling "Geberit" ones -

Geberit dual flush mechanisms? On the website now - will source locally.

If you fill the pan with a jug, does the level come up?

Tried this a while back (tried to fill using the shower) - level remained the same. Looks like I have a vent (cheers for confirming Nige) but does this mean there is little I can do about the level then (unless some serious plumbling takes place?).

Changing the flush mechanism is an ok diy job as long as you can see how your loo is put together. The cistern will probably have to come off, look for wing nuts under the cistern. ( If you're dead lucky the flush mechanism unscrews from inside and the big nut underneath stays put, and fits the new one. ) You'll have to turn off the cistern supply of course.

I have a feeling I might be lucky in that I can unscrew from inside....if not it's a case of taken the whole cistern off. Cistern Supply - I can only really think of turning the whole water system off from downstairs - sound right?

Many thanks folks - I'll source a new flush and let you know how I get on (or may have to double check at the time I begin to install).

Cheers.

 

[jobloggs]

I can only really think of turning the whole water system off from downstairs - sound right?

Only if it is mains fed. If it is fed from cold water tank in loft then you will have to isolate that. It should have a valve on its outlet or failing that you will need to tie up the ballcock and drain down the tank using the cold bath tap.

You really should have an isolating valve on the feed pipe to the toilet cistern.

 

[Northbeach]

I'm almost certain there is nothing in the loft (apart from the usual junk acquisition, old prams and kids clothes!).
I'm guessing therefore that it is mains fed - anyway of finding this out? i.e. turn the mains off and check whether the pan fills...in fact I'm sure that I turned off the main water a while back and remember the girlfriend shouting at me that the loo wouldn't flush.

you will need to tie up the ballcock and drain down the tank using the cold bath tap

This only applies if there was a cold water tank in the loft though? If so I'd turn the cold water bath tap on to drain right? Goodness how little I know!
Just checked the cistern - I will have to unscrew it from outside unfortunately . My only worry is cocking this up and disabling the toilet whilst having a young family hate me even more !

This do the trick?:

Next to the current flush mechanism (the one with the missing part) is the water feed which seems to be constantly 'spraying' water (constant hiss). Is this the way water is fed into csiterns these days? Tried turning the plastic bolt both ways and it merely increased the force of spray (slightly soaking me and the surrounds). Just worried that it is
a: taking too long to fill the pan cistern back up and
b: is wasting water.

If needed I can certainly post a pic of what I'm poorly attempting to describe!

Thanks.[/b]

 

[jobloggs]

If nothing in the loft then mains fed. You can check as you suggested by turning main stopcock in kitchen and flushing to see if cistern refils.

Does picture show existing type or what you propose to replace it with?

Pic of inlet valve would help or search web for type that looks like yours.

 

[Northbeach]

Does picture show existing type or what you propose to replace it with?

Pic of inlet valve would help or search web for type that looks like yours.

ChrisR suggested a Geberit mechanism - this is a dual flush one I found on the web (I do propose to replace with dual flush...and one that works correctly). Are they expensive? Don't really want to install one that is more expensive than the whole suite!!

I'll post up a pic.

Many thanks.

 

[Northbeach]

Images:

1: Cistern:

2: Inlet Valve close up (should be able to see the spraying I was referring to):

Hope these help (and work!!)

Cheers.

 

[Northbeach]

Hi, are the pics of the inlet valve/cistern helpful?
Worried that no only do I have to replace the flush system but also the inlet valve (which is constantly 'spraying' water inside th cistern).
Cheers.