tupe transfer regs

[gingerbreadman]

hi all,i work for a firm at the moment who have just told their employees that the contract we work on is no longer to continue in a few months. been told all pay,hols,pensions etc,get tupe transfer to new company that wins contract. also hearing rumors that new firm can issue 90 day notice to suit their terms. i dont belong to any union,so is there anyone been through this transfer thing before,or is it just a case of same job but new uniform. thanks for any information.

 

[Stivino]

Been there, done that. If you have a contract, it's not worth the paper it's written on. You might as well roll over for them because they can just about do what they want. 90 days notice that they are going to change your terms and conditions is all they need to give you.

 

[Softus]

hi all,i work for a firm at the moment who have just told their employees that the contract we work on is no longer to continue in a few months. been told all pay,hols,pensions etc,get tupe transfer to new company that wins contract.

On the face of it that will meet the criteria for being a TUPE transfer.

also hearing rumors that new firm can issue 90 day notice to suit their terms.

That's not entirely true. In the context of the transfer, they cannot worsen the terms of your employment contract without your agreement, and attempting to coerce you into such an agreement would render them liable for constructive dismissal.

i dont belong to any union,so is there anyone been through this transfer thing before

Yes, and it's fairly complicated.

...or is it just a case of same job but new uniform.

Largely, yes it is.

What else do you want to know?
________________________

Been there, done that. If you have a contract, it's not worth the paper it's written on. You might as well roll over for them because they can just about do what they want. 90 days notice that they are going to change your terms and conditions is all they need to give you.

Complete nonsense from beginning to end.

 

[DESL]

I went through it twice when working for MoD

We did have strong union representation though.

From my experience terms and conditions were the same on transfer but anyone joining after contract change had different Ts & Cs

If you're concerned about changes and you employment status look up a test case that set legal precedent 'Cleaners at Orsett Hospital'
There should be a record of it.

 

[gingerbreadman]

thank you for reply.i/we at work dont know as yet {1 of 3} other firms to win tender for contract,do we have to go through interviews? can we or are we entilted to redundancy? if we are,who pays new firm or existing? also can new firm take into account sickness levels,disapline procedures , last in first out sorry for so many questions but the info helps

 

[Stivino]

It's not nonsense, it's for real. It happened to me and many of my mates. And as for getting your "agreement" there are lots of ways of getting you to "agree".
I'm not going to get into an argument with Softus so I won't reply again in this post. But I didn't imagine what happened, it was very real. It wasn't sudden in my case, it was done over a couple of years but they got there in the end.
I was in a union, Unison but once they get the shop steward at their end of the table, you're stuffed.

 

[^woody^]

AFAIK, when you transfer under TUPE, you transfer all the current contract terms and conditions. But the key word is transfer. I was not aware of any set time period which you have to remain on the previous terms, and the new employer can start the process of altering the terms as soon as they like.

In real terms though the employer cant just change the terms on a whim,and some sort of consultation and process should be done But its very easy to justify in business terms why the new employees contracts must change.

All TUPE does is guarantee you a job with a new employer. It does not guarantee how long the job will then last or any previous terms/agreements

 

[Softus]

do we have to go through interviews?

You might, but only to determine who will transfer and who will not.

can we or are we entilted to redundancy?

Those who don't transfer are entitled to whatever termination payment they would have received if their contract was terminated by the old company, e.g. redundancy (subject to length of service).

if we are,who pays new firm or existing?

If termination is before the deemed date of the TUPE transfer, and if the reason for redundancy is shown to be associated with the transfer, then you can claim for unfair dismissal. If you are not offered a new contract by the new company, then they have to pay you whatever redundancy you were due under the terms of your old employment contract.

also can new firm take into account sickness levels,disapline procedures

Levels? Do you mean employment records? If so, then I believe that they're entitled to be told of that.

The disciplinary procedures will be those of the new company, but any contractual terms of those procedures are required to be the same as or better than those defined in your old contract.

last in first out

The new company can decline to offer a job to anyone they like, but in a TUPE transfer that person is automatically entitled to a redundancy payment.
____________________

It's not nonsense, it's for real.

Your attempt to apply your experience to the circumstances of the OP is what I meant was nonsense.

____________________

In real terms though the employer cant just change the terms on a whim,and some sort of consultation and process should be done But its very easy to justify in business terms why the new employees contracts must change.

That is all true, but doing so immediately after a TUPE transfer is a conspicuous thing for the new company to do.

All TUPE does is guarantee you a job with a new employer.

That's not all it does...

It does not guarantee how long the job will then last...

True.

...or any previous terms/agreements

False. It expressly stipulates that the previous terms continue to apply, and that employment rights are unaffected, and that length of service is taken from the start date with the old company.

 

[^woody^]

[

...or any previous terms/agreements

False. It expressly stipulates that the previous terms continue to apply, and that employment rights are unaffected, and that length of service is taken from the start date with the old company.

Its true.

It guarantees your T&Cs and service only for the transfer. You could transfer on the Monday, and theoretically the company could change the conditions (or start the change process) on the Tuesday.

But any employer that drastically alters your terms, is probably one you don't want to work for anyway

 

[Softus]

Its true.

I apologise - I've just noticed that there's another interpretation of your words, and one that is correct. Sorry.

But any employer that drastically alters your terms, is probably one you don't want to work for anyway

Good call.

 

[dave.m]

Just found this, hope it helps.
Have a look here:
http://www.dti.gov.uk/employment/trade-union-rights/tupe/page16289.html
Click on the wording in the linked site to download a PDF of a guide to your rights:

Employment rights on the transfer of an undertaking: a guide to the 2006 TUPE regulations for employees, employers and representatives
dave [/i]

 

[tim west]

In the 90's they gave us a two year stay of execution in keeping our conditions the same but after that time they had free rain to change what they wanted to, i'm glad i took voluntary redundo when i did and went to work for their rivals.

 

[2scoops0406]

OK, I'll anwser the original question, then relate an "on the face of it" very funny story, but underneath a very bad one.

under TUPE your work conditions are guaranteed to be the same as your previous employer, there is no guarantee of a job afterwards, but effectively it's like everythings the same. just the name of the employer on the playslip.

OK, here's the (funny) bit.

I was employed by a comapny, and was notified that I was going to be TUPE'ed, the reasons for this are complex and not particularly interesting, only 2 people in my department of over 200 were going to be TUPE'ed (so you could perhaps jump to the conclusion that I (along with a colleague) didn't get on terribly well with my boss)

Anyhow, I really didn't like the job I was doing prior to being TUPE'd which would probably explain why I didn't get on with my manager at the time. So in order to try and mitigate this, I told my project manager (who was a contractor) at the time that I really had no desire to work on his particular project and that at his earliest conveience he should cease any funding for my time.

Well, being decent chap he did this, however in the mean time I had transfered to the 3rd party company (there were interviews for "retained" roles, but it was subtely made clear that I wouldn't get one of them)

So new horizons loomed, or so I thought. Well I'll won't bore you with the details, but lets say after 18 months of doing absolutely nothing, I decided to take matters into my own hands so to speak. I got a contract back with the place I had origianlly been TUPE'd out of, thing is I didn't resign from my new company.

It took them over a year to figure it out. They threatenend to reclaim all wages etc, but then accepted that as I hadn't broken any company policies or failed in any of my non existent duties, that it was their total incompetance that was to blame, I now sit a few spaces away from where I used to work albeit on a contract basis.

It sounds funny now, but at the time it was very stressful, so I really hope that your TUPE goes ok, just remember, that as a TUPE'd employee, in my experience you are treated very much as a second class citizen.

 

[kirkgas]

years ago we lost quite a big contract for a local authority, a whole depot was TUPE'd to the new contractor, the new contractor didn't want our guys and our company said it was a TUPE contract so they were going, our guys were told by union lawyers they MUST turn up for work on the first day of transfer to the new office, where the works manager banned them from entry on threat of the police being called, they had to turn up for work everyday and were turned away everyday, what a fu****g farce, this went on for a couple of weeks ( the new contractor didn't want our guys as the conditions were too good, probably why he beat our price to win it) legal action ensued and took exactly 38months to resolve, with our company losing and having to make the guys redundant. but they didn't win any wages etc, obvoiusly people went on to other places of work but lost service/redundancy rights.
i hate TUPE it was actually brought in to protect workers but does the exact opposite, if your company loses work and doesn't have other work they should make you redundant not ship you out, there must have been times where a company overpriced a retender to lose it to TUPE a long service workforce, therefore saving redundancy/pension rights. the new company can and usually do start to change your conditions by invoking a 12 week notice that if they don't change the company will suffer irrevocable damage and will get away with it, barstewards.

 

[Barsteward]

You could look here
http://www.amicustheunion.org/pdf/TUPEguide.pdf