Ukas 2391 qualification

[Paul Barker]

Moderators please don't move this to electrics UK I'm talking to my m8's.

I did wizz down to Mansfield and took a Napit trade test to become full scope member.

Now it turned out to be somat called a UKAS qualification.

Now over on the sparks forum they were pouring contempt on it and saying I would still have to get C and G 2391.

However my wife is a careers adviser and she grinned. It's the same level qualification, ukas is usually used to gain entrey level to univiersity it's a sort of foundation level qualification. It's just that industys used to C and G qualifications won't understand it doesn't make it any less valid.

So I rang Napit and yes it is the same in their eyes as c and g 2391 and as I have c n g 2381 yes I am full scope can do periodic inspections and no I don't have to do c n g 2391 ever.

HOWEVER. Ukas qualification has to be resat every 5 years, just like our corgi acs has to, whereas c n g qualifications don't.

HOWEVER even if I did obtain CNG 2391 Napit would still require me to resit the ukas every 5 years as THAT is the important one to them!

Moreover the other day I was talking to a really great old hand electrician who hasn't got 16th ed, just has 15th and an upgrade and doesn't have c n g 2391 and refuses to get it but is full scope member of Nicky and does periodic inspections.

What I am saying to you guys is go for it.

 

[Biggles..]

Rang Napit myself today, was going to join their full scope and leave behind the world of NICEIC. Got their application pack day before and as Paul has said they're more interested in their own courses and certificates than those of c&g. spose im lucky to have the c&g ones so dont have to sit their course every 5year(2330 qualified, but might have to check to be sure), however they do expect my 2381 to be resat every 2 years.
Why are all the bodies different in their requirements?Napit want you to hold their certificates if not an electrician, NIC and Elseca are only interseted in C&G.

 

[Paul Barker]

You what? Do we have to resit c and g 2381 every 2 years? That seems awfully wasteful.

I must say as an organisation they are impressive. Lets hope they keep it up. Who knows if they get gas we can become Napit Inspectors and hound this lot about lagging their condensate drains

 

[tabs]

Did you do gas first Paul or electrics. I'm doing a limited scope part p course in a fortnight and am considering carrying on to get full scope. What would be the best way of going about doing this?

 

[oilman]

.............. every 2 years? That seems awfully wasteful.

..............

Don't be silly, it means LOADSAMUNNYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!! Same as all the other bodies, no useful function etc. etc..........

 

[Paul Barker]

Did you do gas first Paul or electrics. I'm doing a limited scope part p course in a fortnight and am considering carrying on to get full scope. What would be the best way of going about doing this?

Yes I am corgi registered and did my eal level II qualification a year ago, have had test gear a year. Now I have 16th ed.

Napit allowed me full scope membership with those particulars, but they did put me through two days of the most grueling tests I have ever had in my life. It transpired this was their version of 2391 which is a UKAS qualification not a City and Guilds one. As I said my wife the careers adviser assures me in terms of level of qualification they are equal to one another, but she did explain that this will not be understood by companies who are only conversant with city and guilds. Napit are absolutely firm about it, you must have their version to be a full scope member.

The day I did the test an old time served electrician didn't even get half way in the time allowed, and the other electrician there was no better than me. I got through the exam by the very skin of my teeth but I feel I got through the practical day inspecting and testing by a wide margine. I went down there totally unprepared for that level of test, I had no idea. You are now forwarned.

It is worth noiting that I play with high voltage thermionic valve equipment for fun and am a radio amateur so the level of knowledge required of electricians is not a challenge to someone with that background.

 

[simon_d]

isnt part p brilliant.

plumbers who have been on a know it all in 1 week courses are more 'qualified' than time served sparks who have been in the business for years but dont have P

 

[tabs]

I agree with and note the sarcasm there mate. I have a friend in that situation who is an highly competent electrical engineer . On the other hand I have been doing the electrics in my houses for years and have yet to kill any1, burn anything down or give myself any shocks. Is it fair that I am not officially allowed to do this any longer even though officially there is nothing to stop me playing around with gas appliances? At least when I do the limited scope part p I will no longer be breaking any laws when continuing to do what I have been doing in my own property for years.

 

[Paul Barker]

Yes there has been a mighty effect on all of us created by the government legislation, it is up to us how we handle it. The same ball is in the elctricians' court, they too can get the required qualifications if they don't have them. It should come easy for them, unless their experience was the wrong experience. It is not our fualt the government has dictated the way it is, but surely since we have had to spend out so much we should seek gain to pay back our investments.

 

[ChrisR]

Paul, I'm lost. Could you summarise wot it takes, for a hairy arsed gas plummer to become qualified enough to to house rewires, and any of the inspections which could be uselful and profitable?

Like
1) Wires joining up course, 2 days fulltime + 2 hours exam, £700, easy
2) 2391, 9 months full time, £2 19s 11d, very hard
3) Joining Napit, 93 years experience, £38000

 

[Paul Barker]

I don't know the answer for everyone all I can say is how my original telephone conversation with Napit went.

Me "I have eal level II qualification what else do I need to become a full scope member?

Them "have you any other qualifications?"

Me, "corgi registered"

Them "yes you can join full scope if you come down to us for two days testing and you obtain C and G 2381 and C and G 2391 within one year"

However this girl was slightly wrong as it transpire that the two days testing was infact a UKAS 2391 qualification and C and G 2391 is not required. Maybe things are changing all the time and she wasn't up to speed.

1/ The eal level II qualification I took a year ago it took 5 days and cost £750, final day was an online exam. Quite challenging, the kitchen fitters were nearly in tears. They were pretty useless though. It did challenge me, but being a radio ham and valve enthusiast I soon cottoned on to what they were on about. They called me speedy because I passed all the intermediate tests in about 5 minutes and spent most of the time drinking coffee waiting for the thicko fitters to finish. If you have the discipline of learning like we do in the gas industry it's a certain you will pass, but you will have to sharpen up your short term memory abilities.

2/ The Napit trade test cost me £200 and was the hardest two days of my life, it hit me like a sledge hammer I was in no way prepared for the difficulty and the examiner was as hard as nails, he gave absolutely no assistance, he was entirely their to assess you. There was no sense of wanting you to get through it. Very fair but very hard.

3/ C and G 2381 (sometimes known as 16th edition, or Big Brown Book) is after having gone through levels 1/ and 2/ a step backwards, it's a walk in the park. 3 days training, pathetic open book exam in evening of 3rd day. 60 questions, something like 51 % pass mark. I finished off the top of my head in 25 minutes you have 2hrs allowed. I got way over 90%. (I'm not blowing my trumpet, just trying to portray the level of ease.) Cost £500.

Membership of Napit £300 per year whether full scope or limited scope. It was this that made me decide to go full scope, knowing my ability wasn't a limitation I couldn't see the point paying the same money for limited scope. In fact I think it is insulting, there should be a cheap scheme for limited scope.

 

[Paul Barker]

What I would do differently is obtain 2381 before going for the trade test as it would help you with some of the questions. I had to dig very deep in my cognitive skills to get through the trade test, whereas I could have passed some of the questions from familiarity after 2381. It must be a lot easier for electricians who are not having to survive on their wit, but just drawing from a lifetime of experience.