Undefloor heating - patterns

[jesteh]

My plumber's installed underfloor heating pipes and my question is - how sensitive is the temperature difference in the floor area depending on pattern - pipe spacing.

In the big square area, he's done the spiral pattern I asked him to do with roughly 20cm centres (Pic 1). In the smaller area, he's done some sort of undefined pattern with centres at 5cm in places and 40cm in other places.

Is this likely to cause uneven heating in the floor and is it something thats going to be noticeable or not?

Untitled

• jesteh
• 8 May 2011
• 1

- wierd pattern

Untitled

• jesteh
• 8 May 2011
• 1

- ok pattern

 

[Agile]

It is not terribly important but there are obvious places in that picture where the spacing could be equalised.

I dont see any reason why its not been done more carefully!

Tony

 

[jesteh]

So what should I do - rectify in places, leave it as is or start again?

I am concious that I spent lot of effort and money in preparation for this underfloor heating and I want it to work right - not be unevenly heated, temperamental mess that we just avoid using .

I clearly told plumber to use 20cm spacing and yet at best he spaced the pipes 22cm apart, at worst he's created some sort of random pattern and not worried about pipe spacing at all.

Is this going to really matter when its working - are there going to be different areas of warmth on the floor or is the volume of screed going to distribute temperature and smooth out sloppy installation .

Overall I am a bit gutted - I should have just done the job myself.

 

[ALEC1]

I dont see what can be an issue here...as agile says some pipes may be a bit close together but whats the problem with that?

You want warm rooms I assume, and this with 80mm + of screed will be fine...

I'd trust your installer it will save a lot of stress on you part!

what is important is that there is enough pipe in the floor to give the right output...and that there certainly seems to be...

 

[jesteh]

I don't know if there is a problem - thats why I am asking the question . There certainly is plenty of pipe but what I am concerned about is that areas of floor are covered with lot more pipe than other areas. If pipes are not uniformly spaced on the entire floor, is this going to cause noticeable areas of warmer and cooler floor? What I really want is an experienced UFH installer to look at the pictures and tell me it looks good enough. Or if it all looks a bit crap, then to tell me that .

My plumber is very experienced but when it comes to underfloor heating - he has never done it before. He was very keen and confident to install it and as he's doing all other plumbing in the house, I felt its risk worth taking to give him this as well.

I didn't expect him to deviate from specification on pipe spacing and the layout he was given. He obviously thought he knows better but fact is - he has never done this before so he doesn't. Which is why I am asking here people who do know better .

 

[ALEC1]

unfortunately when laying pipes the plastic pipe is not as flexible as one would think, and areas where spacing appears to be closer than ideal are inevitable. I cant see what issue there could be as a result of this, and certainly I have never had an issue with this.

The critical thing is the volume of pipe in the floor....

 

[martyndc88]

iv done quite ALOT of underfloor heating, (for a big firm with the UFH manufacturs producing drawings and pipe spacings ect) and IMO that looks absolutly fine to me, most of the spacing is kept the same and theres just a few small areas were it not kept the same and in my experience its IMPOSSIBLE to keep it all the same throughout, as rooms are different sizes routes never work out the same ECT ECT. are you also worried about the main route from the maifold? if one room is calling for heat and another isnt ? as long as the whole surface are is covered then your laughing, id b worried if hed left big patches uncovered, but he hasnt he seems to have done a good job, the thing with underfloor heating is that it takes a long time to heat a room up because the heat running thro the pipes isnt the same as that running through a rad for example,(not instantanious heat) therefor taking longer to heat a room up so all you need to worry about is having a good efficient control system, separate room stats, main room stat, good programmer efficient boiler ect ect

 

[jesteh]

Thanks Martyn and others.
I just wanted a bit of a feedback. All I have to go on is the specs and plumber hasn't followed them as I would have if I have done the job myself. I haven't got experience to draw on to tell me it'll be fine and as my plumber is new at this, he doesn't either which is why I was asking the questions.

 

[muggles]

I clearly told plumber to use 20cm spacing

Why are you telling him this at all? A properly-designed UFH system will be supplied with detailed plans of the room, showing both the required spacing and also the actual location of the pipe runs, all he needs to do is follow the plans you give him. If he hasn't done that he's a numpty, if you didn't give him the plans you can hardly blame him if it's not how you wanted it.

 

[martyndc88]

I clearly told plumber to use 20cm spacing

Why are you telling him this at all? A properly-designed UFH system will be supplied with detailed plans of the room, showing both the required spacing and also the actual location of the pipe runs, all he needs to do is follow the plans you give him. If he hasn't done that he's a numpty, if you didn't give him the plans you can hardly blame him if it's not how you wanted it.

not all can be followed to the book tho. so you have to improvise

 

[jesteh]

The UFH was installed in kitchen / dining room. The entire area was 35 sqm and all UFH companies told me because its 1 zone only there is no need for design. I contacted Wavin, Continental, JG, Polyplumb.

I ended up doing my own plans and giving him that as I had nothing better. The kit was purchased from Wavin.

 

[martyndc88]

The UFH was installed in kitchen / dining room. The entire area was 35 sqm and all UFH companies told me because its 1 zone only there is no need for design. I contacted Wavin, Continental, JG, Polyplumb.

I ended up doing my own plans and giving him that as I had nothing better. The kit was purchased from Wavin.

so have you got a manifold and a room stat ? how are you going to control a constant heat in the kitchen / diner and the rest of the house (which i presume is all rads?) zone valves ?

 

[jesteh]

Entire house will have new central heating installed. UFH will only be in the kitchen dining room as thats the only area with screeded floors. There'll also be a timer/stat to control that area. Wavin offered what they called quickcalc service where they provide part list based on your requirement but just a generic instruction guide.

Manifold and 2 sets of port valves will be used for UFH as there are two sets of pipes due to size of area. There's also a separate zone valve and a separate timer/stat for central heating which I asked for. Finally they supply a 'wiring centre' which puts it all together.

At this stage, I am really only concerned with whats underneath the floor as that is not so easy to change. Above the floor, if I or plumber are not happy with the setup, we just get more bits.

 

[martyndc88]

sounds a good set up. and stuff under the floor looks good so no worries there