Under unit lighting

[Dallypro]

Hi All

Just in the process of having a new kitchen installed. The plan is to have under unit lighting operated from a switch, however I have a couple of questions RE installation.

To date, all of the lighting circuit is in, and provision has been made for 240v in each corner of the room to feed the lighting.

What is the most effective way to get power under the units?

240v or 12v?
If 12v, leave driver on top of unit and extend wiring to reach below unit?
Any recommendations on best quality kit?

I have 4 separate areas that need lighting, 2 corners that are approx 1.5m, and 2 straight runs, 1 of 0.7m and 1 of 1.1m. Can i get strip lighting that can be cut to the correct lengths? Most of the strip I have seen can only be cut in 1m lengths.

Electrician is happy to follow my instructions, so its just a case of working out what is best.

Any input appreciated.

Thanks

 

[JohnD]

I'm of the opinion that the practice of having "transformers" hidden inside ceilings and other voids, to run ELV lamps, is tiresome and unnecessary. you can now get small LED lamps that can be supplied and switched at mains voltage, without a spiders web of cables. Replacements will be easy to get, cheap, and have a long service life. Why would anyone want to have ELV lamps if they didn't need to?

 

[SFK]

Dall,
When you say "you have found that strip lighting can only be cut to 1m lengths".
Are you talking about Lengths of LED strip lighting like this : https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Xmas_Lights/LED_Tape/index.html

As these can all be cut with a pair of scissors at about every 3cm (at special cutting points) so you can make whatever lenghts you want. And you can then buy (from ebay) plastic straight and 90degree joins so you can follow shape of units.

Here is a link to someone who had similar question and has my links to LED tape and the 240V to 12Volt voltage convertor (ELV supply) I used.
https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/led-strips-on-shelves.466017/#post-3718810

As you want good quality supplies I recommend www.tlc-direct.co.uk as being better than amazon or ebay.
SFK

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I'm of the opinion that the practice of having "transformers" hidden inside ceilings and other voids, to run ELV lamps, is tiresome and unnecessary.

On top of cupboards isn't hidden inside a ceiling or other voids.

you can now get small LED lamps that can be supplied and switched at mains voltage, without a spiders web of cables. Replacements will be easy to get, cheap, and have a long service life. Why would anyone want to have ELV lamps if they didn't need to?

Sounds like he wants LED tape, so good luck finding some of that which doesn't have an ELV supply and works directly off 230V.

 

[Dallypro]

Thanks for the reply.

My feeling was that 240v would be better. One of the suggestions I have been given is junction box on top of unit, with flex run behind the wall unit down to 240v led strip lighting. Does that sound reasonable?

 

[Dallypro]

Dall,
When you say "you have found that strip lighting can only be cut to 1m lengths".
Are you talking about Lengths of LED strip lighting like this : https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Xmas_Lights/LED_Tape/index.html

As these can all be cut with a pair of scissors at about every 3cm (at special cutting points) so you can make whatever lenghts you want. And you can then buy (from ebay) plastic straight and 90degree joins so you can follow shape of units.

Here is a link to someone who had similar question and has my links to LED tape and the 240V to 12Volt voltage convertor (ELV supply) I used.
https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/led-strips-on-shelves.466017/#post-3718810

As you want good quality supplies I recommend www.tlc-direct.co.uk as being better than amazon or ebay.
SFK

Hi

Yes, thats the stuff I am looking at. Will do some homework and read the other post.

Much appreciated!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

What is the most effective way to get power under the units?

240v or 12v?
If 12v, leave driver on top of unit and extend wiring to reach below unit?

Is there anywhere else sensible for the supply/ies to go? Top of wall units sounds conveniently out of the way, but make sure the supplies are fully enclosed - no doubt you are familiar with the state that the tops of wall units get into after a few years.

And on a related topic, don't rely on gluing the strips to the underside of the cupboards - get some of that aluminium profile with translucent covers and use mechanical fixing.

Can i get strip lighting that can be cut to the correct lengths?

Electrician is happy to follow my instructions, so its just a case of working out what is best.

Shame he has no experience of this type of lighting.

As always, avoid like the plague anything sold by Chinese sellers on eBay or Amazon.

Have you decided on a colour, and brightness? Dimmable RGBW can be handy if you like to vary the mood of the lighting, e.g. if it isn't going to always be only purely functional.

How easy would it be to change the wiring going to the switch(es)? You can get RGBW controllers like this, which fit a standard back-box, but they don't go in the mains wiring to the LED supply.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

My feeling was that 240v would be better. One of the suggestions I have been given is junction box on top of unit, with flex run behind the wall unit down to 240v led strip lighting. Does that sound reasonable?

Unless I am mistaken you cannot get 230V LED tape.

Yes, thats the stuff I am looking at.

It's 12V.

 

[bernardgreen]

Yes, thats the stuff I am looking at. Will do some homework and read the other post

From the TLC page for the tape ""It is low voltage operated at 12Vdc and the self adhesive backing allows for quick and easy installation in kitchens, bathrooms in either the home, caravan, cars or lorries""

It requires a 12 volt DC constant voltage power supply,. ( or 9 volts at which voltage the strip is still very bright but has a longer life )

You do NOT want an LED driver ( which are constant current ) and avoid power supplies labelled as 12VDC (eff) as these can have voltage spikes higher than 12 volts that may damage the LED strip.

 

[Dallypro]

There is not really anywhere else for them to go. On top of the wall units is the only place where we can hide them, unless they go inside the units which the Boss won't allow.

I can get something to enclose them. Good thought as it does get pretty grim.

RGBW had been considered, but I think they will just be warm white and ideally dimmable.

So far I have concluded the following:

- As I have 4 x 240v supplies in each corner of the room, installing will need 4 drivers (which will need to be dimmable)
- I will need to extended the cable between the drivers and LED strip so that it can get from the top of the wall unit to underneath
- I can get connectors to go around the corners.
- Better to put the strip inside a housing, rather than just stick it.
- I can cut the cable every 3cm's.

About right?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

You do NOT want an LED driver

Dally - ignore this completely if you find someone selling tapes, controllers etc, who describes the supply as a 12V driver.

Sadly there are some people here so determined to be unhelpfully pedantic that they refuse to accept that things exist if those things are, to their mind, misnamed.

If you look at these (to cite just two examples)

• https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/led-strip-lighting-in-kitchen.477854/page-6#post-3974631
• https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/...r-suppliers-called.486417/page-2#post-3959188

you'll see that Bernard knows full well that there are manufacturers and sellers out there who offer products called drivers which he argues should not be called that, but so bent out of shape is he over this reality that he would rather falsely tell you that you don't want their products than accept that there is nothing to be done about it.

 

[EFLImpudence]

The complete driver guide.

 

[SFK]

Dally
Items to add to your list:
- What colour LED do you want - Warm White, White, Cool White (note that TLC has a Warm White + Cool White mixture tape which sounds new and interesting)
- What 240V to 12V converter do you want, noting that some are wall warts (ie have plugs sticking out of them making them unstable for you) and some are boxes that you wire 240V in one side and 12Volt out the other (which makes them dangerous if you do not know how to properly wire them - fully isolate 240 supply voltage at fuse box, check with multi-meter, etc.
- What length of LED tape will you be using, as this calculates the Wattage of the 240V to 12V Converter you need (remembering to get one slightly bigger so not stressed and to extend its life).

Note that TLC also has instructions here:
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technical/DataSheets/Skytronic/AVSL_LED_tape_ guide.pdf

BanAllSheds suggestion for metal strips is good as they diffuse the light more, act as heatsink lengthening LED life and as he said the double side tape is poor and does peel always cause them to peel off the cupboards. But as I was tight and because I have coving around bottom of my cupboards to hide the LED tape, I glued the tape directly on to the bottom of cupboard.

Also, I am not getting into the naming of the 240V to 12V convertor >>> on Amazon (remembering that I said perhaps best not to buy from there because they are often low quality) I have found the best search words appear to be "12V LED driver".

SFK

 

[bernardgreen]

Unfortunately Ban All Sheds feels that it is acceptable for companies to incorrectly label some electronic items.

Connecting a driver ( constant current ) to a length of LED strip ( 12 volt DC ) may result in the destruction of the strip because the driver will attempt to drive ( force ) a fixed current through the LEDs. This could result in the voltage put onto the strip being much higher that the rated 12 volt. This higher voltage may damage if not destroy the strip.

 

[EFLImpudence]

A driver is a man who controls a vehicle.

Please stop using it for electrical things.