Undercoat scratching off....

[Kittypie]

I am about to paint my oak varnished kitchen cupboards to bring them up to date, but already am not happy with the undercoat as it's easily scratched off with a finger nail.

For the initial prep I sugar soaped the cupboard doors and drawers, then sanded them down three times using progressively finer grit and have now applied two coats of Dulux Trade Primer Undercoat 2 in 1 and it is this that is scratching off with my finger nail. I let the first cost dry overnight and applied the second coat around twelve hours later. This paint doesn't bode well for heavy use does it?

What would be the best undercoat for this type of job and secondly, can I apply the paint on top of this Dulux, or will it all need sanding again.

For the finishing top coats I was going to use either Dulux Trade Diamond Eggshell, but feel reticent after this experience with the primer, or someone recommended B&Q Valspar eggshell finish, but I really don't know about that paint either.

Any help and advice appreciated. Thanks.

 

[footprints]

Varnished wood needs a special primer, you may find if you leave the primer you have used for a week or so it might "cure" as some special primers like zinsser Bullseye 123 take a while to reach full strength.

One that is very good and simple to use for varnished wood is ESP but you will need to go back to the varnish again I'm afraid.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/OWatrol-567-Owatrol-Easy-Surface/dp/B007C1QGIK

It does not give a white finish though so you will need an undercoat to block out the dark wood colour.

 

[Kittypie]

Footprint, thanks for your helpful reply. I've just read about the Zinsser Bullseye you mentioned and am thinking that one sounds as though it has good adhesion properties. Would I have to sand down the Dulux primer first or will the Zinsser go straight over the top? Also, what Zinsser paint would make a good top coat and can it be mixed for different shades? I want a light satin or eggshell finish. Thanks again for any advice.

 

[footprints]

I am afraid you need to sand away all the dulux primer because if that is a poor adhesion the zinsser can only stick to that and not the varnish.

The Zinsser range is restricted mostly to problem solving primers and treatments it will take pretty much any oil or water based paint.

There are kitchen cupboard paints like Ronseal, that can be painted direct onto melamine but I am not sure about Varnish, I have used it and it was a fairly good finish, (I used zinsser primer to be on the safe side) they claim no brush marks but boy have you got to be fast getting it on!

http://www.ronseal.co.uk/products/one-cupboard-paint

I ended up using Owatrol additive but then I was doing it for a customer, had it just been a home DIY job I might have settled for it as a quick fix.

Pretty any quality satin should do, I would avoid gloss as it is not so forgiving

Just remember what I said zinsser takes time to cure so will scrape off if not fully cured, just be careful of the paint for a week or two.

From choice I would use ESP on varnish.

But before you go doing anything else it's worth giving the dulux a few days to see if it hardens up

 

[Kittypie]

Footprints, thanks for all that good advice, much appreciated!

Yes, I will wait a few days to see whether this Dulux hardens off, fingers crossed, otherwise it's back to sanding.

In its favour, the Dulux is easy to apply, gives a great coating and after two coats using a brush, has dried to a smooth finish with barely visible brushstrokes.

The ESP does sound like a great product as well as the Zinsser, so I'll get one or the other and start on the other end of the kitchen with it, whilst waiting to see what the Dulux will do. If the Dulux turns out alright, is it ok to have used two different primers, half the cupboards being the Dulux and the other cupboards the ESP? I need to get more paint anyway, so it should be a good experiment, so long as it doesn't give a noticeably different final result. It's a largish kitchen with twenty cupboards to be done, so it's going to be a labour intensive job anyway.

The Ronseal sounds ok and has the colour I'm looking for, but I'm not keen on solvent based paints, although I understand they give a good finish.

Apologies for all the questions, I think that's about all the questions I have now, thanks.

 

[footprints]

No harm in using different primers but the ESP will most likely need an undercoat (or extra top coat if self undercoating paint) to get the same finish colour.

I prefer oil based much better "open time" reducing brush marks and drags, the main trouble with oil is the yellowing effect over time, but that is not such a problem with colours other than white.

 

[Kittypie]

Footprints
I feel I've learnt a lot from you about various primer products and their use, thanks. I shall visit this thread again to update on the outcome and my thoughts on the product(s), and maybe seeking more advice
Well, better make a move, have a few cupboard doors to paint.
Thanks again.