URGENT: Anything else to try before calling out an electrician?

[Sprogginz]

Went out this morning to drop my wife off at the station. Just before that I put the washing machine on. When I came home, everything was off.

Basically, the main switch connected to the meter will trip unless I leave the left RCD off.

I have tried turning this RCD on while all the MCBs to its left are off to start a process of elimination but the RCD will not stay on and trips the main switch connected to the meter.

I have not tried switching off all the relevant wall sockets off and pulling out the plugs because I'm assuming there's no point as I have tried switching the RCD on while all the MCBs are off anyway.

Is there anything else I can try before I try to call out an electrician? I need to check my home insurance as I think I'm covered for this. Good job the power sockets connected to my PC are not affected!

Thanks very much and hope you can help.

 

[ETAF]

I have not tried switching off all the relevant wall sockets off and pulling out the plugs because I'm assuming there's no point as I have tried switching the RCD on while all the MCBs are off anyway.

PULL ALL the plugs , and also turn OFF all fused SPUR switches hopefully they are double pole - Neutral and Live

there is a point in doing that - turning the MCD off does NOT stop an earth fault

is the washing machine on the Kitchen circuit - can you unplug that ?

Any rain, possibly in outside lights , connected to the downstairs light circuit

Also remove everything from upstairs sockets as well
I have seen a hair dryer left plugged in do that - as well as other devices

 

[davelx]

As above - however-

"and trips the main switch connected to the meter."
The main switch shown in your consumer unit does not have a trip function - which "main switch" are you referring to? Picture?

PS: That MK B20 MCB on the far left is not approved for use with the Wylex CU. Hopefully all the connections are sound and it is not physically stressing the busbar.

 

[Sprogginz]

Thanks for your prompt reply, I really appreciate this.

Unfortunately, the same result.

With the likely risk of sounding thick, I'm assuming it's all plugs & switches just connected to the MCBs/RCB on the left, not the right as well or rather anything that's not affected?

When I said 'main switch', I meant this one, sorry, tried looking up the correct term but couldn't find it.

I'm sure there's many other violations to this setup. As far as I am aware, this box was installed in 2014, just before we moved in. It's under the stairs and about 2 foot off the ground. You have to lie on the floor and if your waist is more than 44" then you'll struggle. I just hope an electrician will agree to touch it.

Thanks again.

 

[davelx]

Ah, yes, that is not just a switch it is also an RCD, so we can deduce that this is a TT supply and that you have an earth rod somewhere (photo of the earthing/bonding for completeness pls). Proceed exactly as ETAF suggested and let us know the result.

 

[Sprogginz]

I've unplugged and switched off everything that is connected to the MCBs that are off. There are some light switches that don't have physical 'finger' switches, more like touch-sensitive ones instead.

Unfortunately, the same result. As soon as I try to switch on the left RCD (with all the MCBs on the left off), it won't stay up and switches off that main RCD/switch in the second picture, thus switching everything off.

I hope this is the photo you requested. It's a bit of a mess as the broadband modem sits on the gas meter and my PC lives under the stairs too!
I have not altered or touched this before the problem arose this morning.

Thanks again.

 

[ETAF]

the washing machine you have isolated - removed the power socket , if so how have you isolated the washing machine ????

with all the rain recently - at least in our area

Any outside lights

and you are 100% sure - every single 13a socket , the plug has been removed
I know someone who had a hairdryer connected to a socket behind a BED and even though we went through this they still missed and spent a weekend looking into other possibilities , and at £200 callout , they could not afford that , just for a look - had the fridge etc all connected to a different ringmain circuit

 

[Sprogginz]

Thanks again, I'll have another look, to be absolutely sure.

But to reiterate, are we just talking about the sockets, lighting etc that are connected to RCD that trips?

I have NOT unplugged or switched off everything that is connected to the second RCD (on the right in the photo) as that stays on.

There's an outside light but that's connected to the other RCD which doesn't trip and stays on.

 

[ETAF]

But to reiterate, are we just talking about the sockets, lighting etc that are connected to RCD that trips?

all the MCB that are on the left of that RCD - BUT not sure on the busbar layout or internal cable or that B20 connection I suspect its also on the RCD
you can see an example here , MAY NOT be yours - but gives and idea

Amazon.co.uk

trying to find a better image
heres is a video

Question about the Washing machine ?????

maybe at this point , need an electrician as opening up a CU and not knowing way around can be extremely dangerous as LIVE

 

[EFLImpudence]

Can you supply the washing machine from an extension lead from a socket on the other side and see if that RCD then trips instead?

 

[Sprogginz]

Can you supply the washing machine from an extension lead from a socket on the other side and see if that RCD then trips instead?

Thanks for reminding me about using an extension lead. I tried that when my brand new dishwasher but unused for years didn't work. It turned out to be the dishwasher that tripped everything especially when a tiny bit of plume came out from the control panel. Still keep meaning to find out if it's fixable but I doubt it.

I'm using the washing machine now using an extension plugged into downstairs socket, and it seems fine so far.

That said, I've discovered something (apart from the lack of brain cells in my head) which I'll post next.

 

[Sprogginz]

The RCD is now up and working but with the MCBs off.
I just need to wait for my washing machine to finish in about 30 minutes before I start switching them on in case it trips out the whole system again.

Firstly, that MK B20 MCB on the left that davelx pointed out, I don't know what it does but is it possible that it could be connected to the fuse box in my garage? I totally forgot about it! I've just gone into the garage, switched that fuse box off and now the RCD stays up.

It has been raining a lot as davelx also pointed out so I think there might be a leak somewhere that perhaps has gone into a socket. Would that explain it? Can't check properly yet as I've temporarily crammed so much crap in there.

Thanks again and apologies in advance for my brain.

 

[ETAF]

yes, water in sockets, switches etc will cause that issue
usually an MCB does not need to be ON to find an earth fault, hence why it was tripping even with those OFF previously
the fact that you have switched the garage OFF, and its NOT tripping now - assuming its a switch that isolates the neutral and Earth in the garage - and so may indicate a fault in the garage after the switch / consumer unit - OR anything in the garage plugged in or water in any of the lights /spotlights outside the garage etc

so again - Unplug everything - any freezers/fridges in garage ?
any water in outside lights

maybe a photo of garage unit ?

 

[Sprogginz]

Thank you very much for all your help, I really appreciate this, especially as I don't need to call out an electrician.

Everything is back on and working except the fuse box in the garage, I've left that switched off. There's nothing that needs to be on there.

I will leave it for now as I'm exhausted and now got to play catch-up with everything I was supposed to do today.

When I've recovered, I'll investigate the issue more by first switching that fuse box back on and then see what happens. I've got a feeling it's water damage as I can see some wet patches near a socket, through all the crap I need to remove to get to it.

Thanks again, excellent stuff, take the rest of the day off!

 

[ETAF]

I've got a feeling it's water damage as I can see some wet patches near a socket, through all the crap I need to remove to get to it.

while the garage CU is OFF

as a Fusebox, I suspect the main switch is a Double pole and so isolates the Neutral and Live connections from the House CU and the garage , which means at least the cable to the garage should be OK

its worth removing the front cover and see if damp or if full of water
of course overtime , they may simply dry out and so ALL will work OK again, until next rainfull