Vented water systems, why do they exist?

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I have been reading about vented water system (I don’t have one) and I cannot see why so many homes have them.
Pressure is probably going to be about 0.1 bar, which sounds a bit low


Why doing this when you can have hot water pushed by mains water pressure?
 
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Well, there's less chance of this happening with a vented, rather than an unvented system! :D

 
Quite simply I believe, because it was found quite early on in the grand scheme of things, that water expands when it is heated. Therefore some means to absorb that expansion was needed, and to safely release any pressure that may build up, the chosen method was to vent to atmosphere. This also helped with safety when many early systems using solid fuel, and no realistic thermostatic control on the heat source, making it entirely possible to boil the contents of the Hot Water storage vessel.

Unvented systems have several safety devices fitted to prevent a disaster, and also hence the need for the annual service by a G3 qualified installer.
 
When I was a lad and mother was baking it was common the hear the water boiling, and I would be sent to run off some hot water, the header tank was steel so no chance of not standing the heat the only danger was the water running out of the overflow onto the drive.

It was a pain as it would trip out the over temperature on the immersion heater, so next time we wanted it we needed to reset it, but a coke fired cooker can produce a lot of heat.

But why the domestic hot water was not heated with a coil inside the cylinder rather than using it direct from the cylinder I don't know, may be hot coils were not that good back then. To get hot water at mains pressure there is no need to pressurise the whole tank, this diagram Torrent pipe example.PNG shows how hot coils can both put heat into a common tank and remove it from a common tank, however to have an efficient heat exchanger needs a lot of surface area, and the tank would be expensive as a result, however by putting the different functions at different levels it allows DHW to be cooler or hotter than the central heating water. Having the mains pressure hot water in the coil rather than in the main tank means there is no water reserve, if mains hot water fails there is nothing, however even if there is water in the cylinder it does not really help as unless it can draw in air it will not come out. And as water is heated it releases any air in the water, so some means to bleed off the air is also required.

So as an electrician my question is why is the tank pressurised, I have never worked it out. The same question arises with the boilers, my dad worked in a power station with water tube boilers, if a tube leaked it sprayed water or steam on the fire, but at work they have fire tube boilers, and the whole of the boiler has water and steam at around 180°C more with the older boilers which use super heated steam.

All railway engines seemed to have been made with fire tube boilers, but cars often had flash boilers which were less dangerous in a crash. Although it seems Richard Trevithick did not use a flash boiler as it seems it blow up while in the Pub.

James Watt was rather critical of using high pressure steam, but our railways would not have worked by simply condensing steam.

We hope the plumber who sets up the system gets it right, however both the Emma Shaw case and Rhianna Hardie would both likely be alive today had the plumber and electrician got it right. The problem is a mixture of trades, and so easy for the wrong type of immersion heater, header tank, or even not glueing the tun dish can result in disaster. Accidents are normally caused by many faults adding up, whole idea of using a thermal plastic header tank to me seems flawed, should be thermal setting type, if using plastic.

But we try to do things on the cheap, and only rental property gets a regular electric, and gas inspection, I was in my house for around 20 years before I had need to remove my gas fire for maintenance only to find a hole the size of my fist in the flue, so fumes could get into the room since the day we moved in, as a new build never even considered it would not be right. Father-in-laws house the gas safe guy sealed the flue with sticky tape, which soon peeled off.

Yes our own fault we should get a gas and electric inspection done on a regular basis, but we don't, and the inspector should check not only for gas leaks but also flue gas leaks, I noted my oil guy did, but never saw a gas guy check the flue in the same way.

As @Hugh Jaleak says we should have the pressurised system tested every year, but how many do? Far safer to have the tank gravity pressure only.
 
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Because as I replied on a similar thread a week back my mains water pressure is so low that upstairs in the house the pressure/flow at the hot tap from my gravity fed vented hot water system with cylinder plus tank in the roof is MORE than the pressure/flow at the cold water tap fed directly from the mains.

Add to that when the water mains fails as it does occasionally or when the booster pump in the local reservoir fails which is rather more often thereby giving me no main water pressure upstairs and a trickle downstairs I still have a part functional water system giving me hot water.
 
Because as I replied on a similar thread a week back my mains water pressure is so low that upstairs in the house the pressure/flow at the hot tap from my gravity fed vented hot water system with cylinder plus tank in the roof is MORE than the pressure/flow at the cold water tap fed directly from the mains.

Add to that when the water mains fails as it does occasionally or when the booster pump in the local reservoir fails which is rather more often thereby giving me no main water pressure upstairs and a trickle downstairs I still have a part functional water system giving me hot water.

A gravity fed system cannot give you more pressure than the pressure required to take water there in the first place (apart from the times when mains pressure drops)
So you probably mean flow rather than pressure, and higher flow can be achieved by bigger pipes, am I right?
 
A gravity fed system cannot give you more pressure than the pressure required to take water there in the first place (apart from the times when mains pressure drops)
So you probably mean flow rather than pressure, and higher flow can be achieved by bigger pipes, am I right?

In the broad understanding then yes, there wouldn't normally be more pressure down than what took it to get up there in the first place.

Gravity systems maximise their supply by using larger pipework (typically 22mm) and full flow taps (large waterways with low resistance) therefore it doesn't take a lot of pressure to maximise the flow at the outlet.
The trouble comes when trying to mix modern outlets and pipe tyopes with existing gravity systems, they don't always mix well. That and DIY'ers not knowing the difference or the possible impacts of trying to mix the 2, that compounds that issue.
 
I have been reading about vented water system (I don’t have one) and I cannot see why so many homes have them.
Pressure is probably going to be about 0.1 bar, which sounds a bit low


Why doing this when you can have hot water pushed by mains water pressure?
If you're referring to a system with a boiler plus HW cylinder (as opposed to a combi), both the primary and the secondary circuit can be vented or unvented. Each has its pros and cons. Personally I prefer vented for both.
 
If you're referring to a system with a boiler plus HW cylinder (as opposed to a combi), both the primary and the secondary circuit can be vented or unvented. Each has its pros and cons. Personally I prefer vented for both.

No, I was referring to vented vs unvented

I can see why some people would like to have a hot water tank rather than a combi boiler; I just couldn’t grasp the meaning of the vented part of it; some of the comments above have clarified and it looks like it’s heritage from old times
If somebody if still fitting them in new builds, then I’m missing something
 
No, I was referring to vented vs unvented
Not with you. So was I, on both the primary and secondary.
Sounds like you're thinking of the secondary. On that side unvented has advantage of a more powerful shower with no need for a pump (provided the mains supply is good enough) and avoids a header tank. But a more costly cylinder, and an expansion vessel plus PRV. And no water reserve in the (unlikely) event of mains outage. Of course, in a flat, new build or otherwise, header tank might not be an option.
 
Some where some how all water supply systems must be vented, be it through a pressure release valve, or a open to atmosphere tank, there is normally a non return valve in the supply so water can't return. There may be a gas filled tank to allow for expansion, but also needs a pressure release valve in case water is over heated.

I had a claimed non vented system in the caravan, in fact it was vented through the tap. There was a rod that went through what looked like the tap, and turned the supply on/off to the boiler, so cold water in forced hot water out.

Even the central heating water has a vent some where in case the boiler does not switch off fast enough. I found out the hard way what happens when not fitted, it blow the pipe fitting off. Water all over my garage. Lucky it was in the garage not house.

One major problem is your not permitted to pump the mains water, you can pump it out of a tank, so an open tank in the loft can supply a power shower which is far higher pressure than most mains supplies, but from a combi boiler that is not permitted as it could suck dirt into the main.

Main reason for having domestic hot water at mains pressure is to save room.
 
One major problem is your not permitted to pump the mains water
You are, in most areas - up to 12L/Min
Main reason for having domestic hot water at mains pressure is to save room.
Not my main reason TBH, I wanted to be able to feed 3 showers at once if needed. Also using a 300L unvented cylinder (combi not withstanding) didn't save any space, in fact there's less space in that airing cupboard now. Only space that was saved was in the attic, where space wasn't really an issue.
 

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