Vokera Unica 36 HE. Is the gas valve at fault or not?

[JohnHuson]

Four year old Vokera Unica 36HE been fine, now stopped. Fan works when switching on, it stays on for about 5 seconds, then stops, and after one minute the fault code 10 is flashing. I appreciate that is either an ignition, condenser or gas supply problem?
I do not want to touch the gas side of things but I am competent to deal with the rest of it (Worked on Worcester boilers for years).
There are brand new gas valves I can buy and ask our local heating man to fit, and they are half the price than our heating wholesaler. (20039202) only 4 left so I need to act quickly.
What else can I eliminate before we start throwing money at it please?
The condensate drain is clear. I am unable to determine if the spark generator is working or not.
Thanks.

 

[vulcancontinental]

Four year old Vokera Unica 36HE been fine, now stopped. Fan works when switching on, it stays on for about 5 seconds, then stops, and after one minute the fault code 10 is flashing. I appreciate that is either an ignition, condenser or gas supply problem?
I do not want to touch the gas side of things but I am competent to deal with the rest of it (Worked on Worcester boilers for years).
There are brand new gas valves I can buy and ask our local heating man to fit, and they are half the price than our heating wholesaler. (20039202) only 4 left so I need to act quickly.
What else can I eliminate before we start throwing money at it please?
The condensate drain is clear. I am unable to determine if the spark generator is working or not.
Thanks.

Unfortunately the bit I'd want you to check on a four year old Unica is inside the combustion box, is rarely serviced or checked but which really means you'd need to be gas registered.

Do you mean the fan runs for 5 seconds or you think the boiler lights for 5 seconds?

 

[JohnHuson]

The latest...... When I reset it a number of times it was trying to fire but it would start igniting and go Whoof, whoof a number of times gathering intensity and would eventually light and perform OK. ( A bit like winding over a car engine thats miss firing).
If I leave it it will go through the same routine again, woomf woomf and then run.
After a while the woomf woomf will not quite get it to go so it shuts down and issues a code 10.
I then have to through the reset procedure again.
Its as though it is not getting enough gas so is it the gas valve at fault?

I have had my usual Gas Safe man who does my annual check but he could not sort it.
Thanks for your help.

 

[DP]

John, there will not be much you can do with that boiler other than getting a gas engineer out who knows how the boiler works.

Vulcancontinetal is the best man to suggest how to go about it

 

[vulcancontinental]

If you can't get a guy who understands the boiler then I'd ring Vokera who will do a fixed price repair for about £230.

I work for them and I'm not tryiing to drum up business and they're not that difficult but you need a guy who understands what is happening. It could be a component it could be a thorough service required.

 

[Agile]

Is this where you live?

Or a rented out property and a gas safety check that you have done?

A proper service involves opening the boiler and doing an analysis of the flue gases!

What did your guy do?

How does he explain his inability to repair it?

Tony

 

[Agile]

You seem to be involved with a lot of boilers don't you?

British Gas version. Have checked all connections. All correct lights on. No ignition on either CH or Domestic. Pump running continually. No problem with wireless thermostat. PCB looks clean and free from damage. I am reluctant to pay £150 for a replacement board if it is likely to be another problem. Sometimes the C1 fan code ( slow fan) comes up. The impeller spins feely by hand but no rotation otherwise and I do not have a positive supply from the board to the fan motor.
Your help will be appreciated, thanks, John

Gas fitter has left it to my choice but has specified Kw range. I do not want Worcester products thanks......unreliable with experience of six of their boilers in student lets.

 

[simond]

Aha!

 

[JohnHuson]

I do not touch the gas side.....period. I have already said I had 25 years experience of Worcester/Ideal boilers and yes I was a Landlord. Now retired.
So no subtifuge or mystery here then?
I repaired and maintained 7 units over many years succesfully in between the annual certificates and changing the usual components. The WB PCB's were a problem and expensive.

All I am asking here is should I purchase a new valve available at less than half the price of a new one? At £75 it is worth my while in asking the man who does my gas certificate annually to fit it if the component is a likely cause.
He did spend time in resetting it like I have done. I think his speciality is fitting new systems so it seems. He did call the Vokera technical team I believe.

Even so, the problem has since changed. The boiler is now running but when starting it ignites then stops then repeats and tries to run hesitantly several times before it gathers anough pace to stay on.

I appreciate that I may need to call out a Vokera engineer and I will do so, but £230 is a lot of money. I am not trying to rob you Gas Safe engineers out of a job.
I was an engineer and am curious about the malfunction and also have the motivation to investigate and solve it, but not the gas side.
Thanks for your advice and opinions.

 

[Agile]

"""All I am asking here is should I purchase a new valve available at less than half the price of a new one? At £75 it is worth my while in asking the man who does my gas certificate annually to fit it if the component is a likely cause."""

It is not a sensible thing to do to replace parts even if they are "likely" to be the cause of a fault. That's not only expensive but an indication of a scenario where the fault has not been identified.

There is only one place to diagnose faults and that's in front of the boiler. I would not expect that it is the gas valve but them I have not seen the boiler.

It seems to be a gas/combustion issue and as you will have seen in the forum rules we are not allowed to give DIY repair advice on these matters.

If the engineer you have does not have adequate skills to properly diagnose your fault then the obvious advice is to find another who does.

Using the Vokera repair service will guarantee that it gets fixed but I would expect a reasonably priced engineer will be cheaper.

I would also recommend you only employ one who will offer a no fix no fee arrangement.

Furthermore if YOU buy a part yourself and ask an engineer to fix it and it does not cure the fault then the cost of that is down to you.

Whereas if you follow the normal procedure then the engineer is responsible for diagnosing the fault and you do not have any obligation to pay for parts which do not repair the fault.

I have serious reservations about your engineer. To diagnose and repair modern boilers you need to use a flue gas analyser to assist with combustion diagnosis as well as to set up and adjust when a new gas valve is fitted. You have not mentioned his use of this tool which is usually an essential part of fault diagnosis.

Tony

 

[steve32]

If you add your location you may find someone on this site close to you that knows this boiler.
It's very unlikely to be the gas valve so you need to get the other part checked first which I would check on a service.

 

[DP]

He did spend time in resetting it like I have done. I think his speciality is fitting new systems so it seems. He did call the Vokera technical team I believe.

John, firstly, an installer who only fits boilers does not need to know what lurks behind the white cover. Secondly, Vokera technical is good- a blind man if he follows instructions, will be able to effect a repair.

You as a landlord cannot touch, play with or adjust anything on a gas appliance- period. You may want to check this with Gas Safe. Gas Safe magazine regularly report landlords and unregistered who have have tinkered with a gas appliance and end up paying a hefty fine.

Fail to see an issue to pay someone to effect a repair costing £230.00. Surely this would be an amount that would be set off against maintenance repairs unless you are not declaring the rental income

 

[Agile]

From local paper:-


A Harrow landlord was given a suspended jail sentence and fined £10,000 after putting his tenants’ lives in danger.

Vispasp Sarkari, who rented out five flats in London Road, Wembley, was charged with a serious safety breach after an investigation by the Health and Safety Executive.

Southwark Crown Court heard yesterday that Mr Sakari, of Hawthorne Avenue, Harrow, was caught ‘red-handed’ by a visiting National Grid engineer carrying out work on a boiler on August 13, 2013 - despite the fact he was not registered.

After the court heard HSE found evidence he had been carrying out the work for some time, he was sentenced to 12 months’ in prison - suspended for two years.

Mr Sakari was also sentenced to 150 hours’ unpaid community work, a fine of £10,000 and ordered to pay £9,978 in costs after admitting breaching the gas safety regulations.


I think that I did a small job for him a few years ago. If so he has a pony tail and silver Mercedes !

 

[JohnHuson]

Thanks to you all. As it seems unlikely it will be the gas valve at fault I will put the £75 to get a Gas Safe registered engineer around the Chester/Wirral area who has knowledge of Vokera boilers and have it serviced.
If not, I will call the Vokera company for a recommended person as you suggest.
I appreciate all your concerns, and thanks again, especially Tony and Steve.