Volunteers and Part P

[bernardgreen]

Volunteers do a lot of work for the elderly and other unable to afford to have essential work done. Part P requires that those doing electrical work are now restricted to what they can do without charge. Some may decide to finance the required "certification" for themselves while others will have to rely finding the inspection fees.

An example of the work was running a feed to a garage for a socket to re-charge the batteries on an electric scooter, lights and electric door opener. About an hour and a half for the sparks and his son ( materials donated ) followed by a hefty inspection charge.

I do accept that there is a need for something like Part P to remove some of the dangers resulting from ignorance and stupidity of some DIY people. Though Part P doesn't actually work because those ignorant of Part P will go ahead and do their work anyway unaware it has to be inspected.

The cost of being able to self certify does seem very expensive for what is involved.

Bernard
Sharnbrook

 

[joe-90]

I agree Bernard. What they should have done is say that everyone doing electrical work should be qualified in the 16th edition regulations .There is a course that runs at local colleges (one of the City and Guilds exams). In order to pass the exam the student has to be very familiar with the regs and the calculations behind the regs. I did the course about 12 years ago and I'm endlessly surprised that I know the regs better than some Sparks.

 

[keyplayer]

I do accept that there is a need for something like Part P to remove some of the dangers resulting from ignorance and stupidity of some DIY people

I don't. It's just a blatent attempt by the industry to take control. Everything was fine as it was pre part P imo.

 

[Adam_151]

I wonder if you can convince the NICEIC to give a charity a sizeable discount?

(hopefully your sparky has his own test gear and regs books? or does he borrow them from his employer when need be)

Passing the 2381 doesn't mean very much Joe....

EDIT: Snarled up spelling/grammer

 

[joe-90]

Passing the 2381 doesn't mean very much Joe....

It means that you understand the regulations and can ensure that your work complies with them. What more do you need? Testing? Well tag a testing module on then.

 

[Big_Spark]

Joe, whilst I would agree to a degree that a lot of sparks do not know the Regs Verbatim, I think for you to impune their abilities as sparks as a result is a little unfair..even if this is not what you meant, it's how it reads.

I cannot comment on others here, but I don't remember all the Regs, as my book is always with me as a reference, as such I remember the important things and refer to the book or OSG when there is a need.

Being able to read the regs from memory does not make one an electrician, and nor does possession of a 2381 certificate..you need a lot more..

 

[joe-90]

Joe, whilst I would agree to a degree that a lot of sparks do not know the Regs Verbatim, I think for you to impune their abilities as sparks as a result is a little unfair..even if this is not what you meant, it's how it reads.

I cannot comment on others here, but I don't remember all the Regs, as my book is always with me as a reference, as such I remember the important things and refer to the book or OSG when there is a need.

Being able to read the regs from memory does not make one an electrician, and nor does possession of a 2381 certificate..you need a lot more..

For comericaial and industrial - yes I agree. However, adding a couple of sockets or lights around the home isn't exactly rocket science. As long as it is done according to the regs - it's legal. What would a non-part P person be charged with if he did the work according to the regs?

 

[Big_Spark]

For comericaial and industrial - yes I agree. However, adding a couple of sockets or lights around the home isn't exactly rocket science. As long as it is done according to the regs - it's legal. What would a non-part P person be charged with if he did the work according to the regs?

Again, to a degree that may be true, but there are certainly instances I can think of in someones home where knowing the Regs is not enough..you need the technical knowledge to interpret the Regs to fit the situation you find yourself faced with..remember they are only a MINIMUM standard to be complied with.

Further, a Regs book will not teach you how to fault find or test work safely . I do understand this can be learnt without becoming a spark, however the technical knowledge and experience of a spark pays dividends when fault finding, undestanding how electricity actually works and how a sparky may have wired something is as important as knowing how to wire it..

The Building Regs are LAW, they are an Act of Parliament, so to breach them, under an section, is an ARRESTABLE Offence, as breaching any section CAN incur a custodial sentence.. How they actually word the offence I am not sure.

 

[joe-90]

Do you 'hide' junction boxes under floorboards (against regs)?

Do you take into account the heat of heating pipes when working out cable sizes? If so - what is the formula you use?

If I were to re-wire my house and then contact the council re inspection - is that legal? if not - why not?

 

[Big_Spark]

Do you 'hide' junction boxes under floorboards (against regs)?

No I do not, but then if you read my signature you would have realised that. However even were I to do any domestic work, I would not put any JB where it is not easily accessible..such as behind a downlighter or similar obvious location.

Do you take into account the heat of heating pipes when working out cable sizes? If so - what is the formula you use?

I take into account ALL the environmental conditions that the cable for a given circuit may be subject too, as the majority of sparks do.

If I were to re-wire my house and then contact the council re inspection - is that legal? if not - why not?

That is a thorny one, in theory at least, you would be commiting an offence as your not a Part P scheme registered installer, however as this is your personal property, common law, one would assume, and Human Rights legislation, would mean that you can do what you like with regards the electrical installation in your property. Whether the council would be prepared to undertake the inspection and issue a certificate is another matter that I certainly would not attempt to guess at..

 

[ebee]

Part P WAS needed.
Plenty of disgracefull work has been done by many timed served electricians, non time served electricians and non electricians.
Equally plenty of exellent work has also been done by all three types too.
And every combination in between.
Part P is nowhere near what it should have been and has many flaws, buit by continuing to raise awareness, folk sitting courses and exams and having decent test equipment must slowly help to improve standards.
It might one day evolve into something it should really be.
Something certainly needed doing.

 

[Big_Spark]

Ebee has hit the nail on the head...and the only way to truly ensure some level of accountability is for ALL electrical worknto be outlawed UNLESS is is undertaken by a Registered Electrician..and that Register should be DTi organised and not by a self serving bunch of buly boys and charletans. Further, there should be strictly enforced sanctions against those that do shoddy work, con people or work illegally.

Now I'll get a bucket of water to put out the flames that will occur!!

 

[ebee]

BIG,
I lit the blue touch paper, you got the water, LOL.

I could build someone a car,
it would be a DEATHTRAP,
They might run it for years without any harm.
But it would still be a deathtrap.

 

[Big_Spark]

Exactly my point Ebee, I know how to build a Nuclear Reactor, but it doesn't mean I should or that it would be safe, even if it worked properly!!

I do find it odd that to be a Taxi driver, bus driver, truck driver etc etc, you need to be properly trained and even when trained licensed to do your job..

Yet in this country you can call yourself an electrician, do work anywhere you like, so long as no-one checks you out, and the law will do nothing, in fact it is perfectly legal as the law does not protect the public or even the qualified electricians out there...In threory at least Part P should reduce or halt this in domestic premises at least..but we all go to work!!

As a bus, truck or taxi driver, if you kill someone, your livlihood will be removed from you if you were negligent, but as an electrician the courts have no such capacity..they can only put you in prison if they can secure a HSE prosecution and that means prooving Legal Negligence, which is not as simple as it sounds.

This country has a hard-on for self-regulation, even though all the evidence from every organisation setup to regulate a particular industry shows that this self-regulation is full of holes and corruption...DTi regulation is the only way forward...

 

[dingbat]

Part P is nowhere near what it should have been and has many flaws, buit by continuing to raise awareness, folk sitting courses and exams and having decent test equipment must slowly help to improve standards.

Part P is exactly what it was intended to be. It is a requirement, under the Building Regulations, that reasonable provision is made to ensure the safety of electrical installations. And that is all that can be asked without resorting to creating a closed shop, with its inherent abuses. (And a closed shop would benefit the big boys far more than the sole trader.)

As it stands, it requires certain minimum standards - BS 7671 - and has recourse to the law to correct deficiencies and punish offenders. Of course, like all legislation, some will ignore it and many will be ignorant (have you been on the roads lately?) but undoubtedly it is and will continue to improve standards.

Yes, cowboys will continue to operate; but whatever the measures, there would always be a criminal element. The fact that this criminal element now includes supposedly qualified electricians who are happy to flout the law yet unwilling to subject their ability to scrutiny speaks volumes about the hard reality of their so-called 'expertise'.

'The cost of being able to self certify' is insignificant... unless one needs training and equipment to be able to do what one's credentials suggest you should already be capable of.

I have little but scorn for these charlatans.