Wait 6 months to apply for extension permission?

[cobblex]

Wondering if anyone else has had a similar issue. We moved into our semi just over 3 years ago. The previous owner built a large loft extension shortly before we purchased, presumably under Permitted Development rules. We have the buildings reg certificate sign off dated June 2011 (we moved in November 2011), but no certificate confirming it met PD conditions was ever obtained. In hindsight we should have pushed for this at the time we moved in but assumed all was above board.

Issue now is we want to apply for a 5metre rear extension, and for semis you have to make an application to the council for this to get it done under PD (as opposed to a 3 metre extension which you can just go ahead and do it without notifying the council). Problem is we now suspect the loft conversion was too large for PD (approximately 7-10 m3 too much) and therefore if we put an application in for the rear extension potentially the council may start digging around the loft extension and could cause problems. The drawings presented would need to show the large rear dormer so they may flag it from that.

Simple choice is to wait until June when the loft extension will be 4 years old, then apply for certificate of lawfulness for the loft extension (under 4 years old rules) then proceed to apply for the extension. Problem is now my next door neighbour (attached) is likely selling up before then, and we have no idea if the new neighbour would object to the 5m extension meaning we have uncertainty about whether we can proceed at all!

It's frustrating as we're all ready to go funds wise. And we have building reg sign off on the loft, just not planning.

Does anyone know if the council would be likely to investigate an older extension when making a new application? If they did would they really go to the lengths of refusing retrospective planning permission for a small breach of 7-10 m3?

Should i just wait till June instead, and get the loft retrospectively approved, to be on the safe side.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

It must be one helluva dormer to exceed 50m³!

You know the volume limit does not include the original loft volume?

 

[cobblex]

It must be one helluva dormer to exceed 50m³!

You know the volume limit does not include the original loft volume?

Yep, aware it's additional space only. It's a semi-chalet bungalow so the width is about 8metres and it was a hip to gable conversion so created a lot of additional space. I need to get a proper site inspection done to get an exact volume but from my elementary calculations i'm coming in around 55m3. It is amazing how much room you can get from a bungalow loft coversion!

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

OK, you didn't mention the hip to gable conversion in your first post.

Anyway why do you need to let them know about the loft. You don't need to submit elevations despite what they may be telling you. The legislation is very clear http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/1101/article/4./made) they have to accept your application with only the information in the legislation.

 

[cobblex]

OK, you didn't mention the hip to gable conversion in your first post.

Anyway why do you need to let them know about the loft. You don't need to submit elevations despite what they may be telling you. The legislation is very clear http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/1101/article/4./made) they have to accept your application with only the information in the legislation.

Thanks for your responses. I wouldn't let them know about the loft but i assumed rear and side drawings would need to be submitted with the application which would show the rear dormer.

I guess my concern is they may start sniffing around, particularly if a neighbour does raise an issue (but saying that I wouldn't proceed with the it until i got my neighbours ok). The size of the extension would be unlikely to get through formal planning, so I do wonder when presented with these temporary larger PD applications if the councils are more likely to cause issues since they are forced to approve them.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

So do you anticipate any objections from your adjoining neighbours? it's pretty hard for anyone to categorically say if the planners will sniff around or not and find out that you're a devious lawbreaker or not!

 

[cobblex]

So do you anticipate any objections from your adjoining neighbours? it's pretty hard for anyone to categorically say if the planners will sniff around or not and find out that you're a devious lawbreaker or not!

Not anticipating issues with neighbours but haven't spoken them yet.

Yep, appreciate my question is asking a bit much, not expecting anyone to say if the planners will or not! But would it be unusual for them to pick up on an older extension when reviewing an application? And if they did should i be worried, given the small size of the breach in m3? Thing is that makes me laugh is building control came in and checked the loft but theyre only interested in m2 not m3 - you'd think they'd maybe tell their mates in planning when they've done a home check!

Hey i didn't break the law, previous owner did

Our road is full of hip to gable extensions, some looking fairly new, large front dormers (an absolute planning no no with our council!) all manner of odd looking rear extensions and yet can i find any planning applications for any of them on our council website. Knowing my luck we'll be the only buggers to apply properly and end up getting in trouble!

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Really can't say if they would pick it up or not, my money says they wouldn't, yes BC rarely speak with Planning and vice versa!

It's quite likely they would ask you to submit a retrospective planning approval even for 5m³ over. And occasionally enforcement is pursued.

BTW it's the current owner of the building who's accountable not the previous one or their contractors.

 

[cobblex]

Really can't say if they would pick it up or not, my money says they wouldn't, yes BC rarely speak with Planning and vice versa!

It's quite likely they would ask you to submit a retrospective planning approval even for 5m³ over. And occasionally enforcement is pursued.

BTW it's the current owner of the building who's accountable not the previous one or their contractors.

Yep, understand we're the ones accountable.

Thanks for your replies, very interesting reading, especially the link to the detailed legislation.

Next thing I'm going to do is get a proper measurement of this loft extension volume done and go from there.

 

[tony1851]

If you're using the prior notification scheme, you do not have to show elevations. All the council can ask for is a sketch plan showing the site with the existing house and extension. The plan doesn't even have to be to scale - simple thumbnail sketch will do.

You only have to state the maximum projection, height and eaves height (in writing). If the neighbours don't complain, it's highly unlikely anyone from Planning will call round (at least that's my experience).

(As above, it would be a pretty big dormer at 50m3, even allowing for a hip-to-gable. You're not counting the existing internal roof volume as well are you?).

 

[cjard]

duplicate post

 

[cjard]

Like freddy says, 50 cube is huge. if your house was 8 metres x 20 metres x 3 metres high eaves with a 6m high ridge, and the former hip/ridge meeting point was 5 metres away from the side wall, then that would be a 50 cube extension (of just hip to gable)

How about you give us the house dimensions and we'll tell you the volume of your roof extension?
We need: house width, depth, height of eaves, height of ridge and distance from the side wall where the hipped surface formerly met the roof ridge, width of dormer and height of dormer roof off the floor (assuming the roof is flat) or height of both front and back of dormer roof (if the dormer has a monopitched roof)

 

[Nakajo]

cjard 50m³ is (for instance) just 2.8 x 2.8 x 6.4 - not HUGE, just LARGE !! You're thinking of 500m³!!!