Warm Air Woes

[Mikimak]

Hi everyone first time posting here after seeing alot of posts about warm air heating, so hopefully someone might be to help.

My house has a 47 year old duct air warm air system which we've used for 8 years and it still works, so I never bothered to replace it, after I had a gas hob installed other week the gas Fitter refused to relight the heater and looked horrified by it..I ended up relighting it myself after he left..but it got me worried, also I've never had it serviced!! I just cleaned the filter every few months and made sure the carbon monoxide detector works.

Anyway long story short and money being tight I found a newer 4 year old one on EBay - its a J&S hi-spec J25 and the guy I got it from claims it works perfect they just preferred rads so swapped to rads. I thought it would be fairly easy to find someone to help modify my system to work with this newer/safer one but I'm having trouble finding anyone to help.

I called a company this morning and they will only fit new heaters, I like warm air (I know lots of people don't) and I thought this would be the easy option as they can be installed in a day or two and we don't really have space for rads. I don't even think it's old for a warm air heater compared to the unit we currently have. I'm in Leeds if anyone knows anyone that can help.

 

[longdogs]

Sorry, I can't help on the technical side but as a kid, I remember many a cold morning snuggled up by the hot air vent. They were great. The vent in my bedroom also gave me somewhere to stash my dirty mags too.

 

[bernardgreen]

Second hand gas appliances bought via any on line auction site could be faulty and possibly lethal. ( they could also be in perfectly good order ) The risk that the item is faulty is too high for any reputable engineer to fit such an item and sign it off as safe.. That is why they won't fit it.

http://www.johnsonandstarley.co.uk/warm-air/overview.asp

and for advice from them

http://www.johnsonandstarley.co.uk/replacements/replacement-advice.asp

 

[Mikimak]

Thanks for the replies.. get what your saying but its only a few years old and wouldn't they test it first before commissioning it? A new unit could be faulty and dangerous. It's got to be safer than the one I have already so I'm a bit stuck. I will contact J&S see if they have any advice but I'm guessing it will be buy a new unit for 10 times the cost

 

[Phill Peck]

The reasons u will struggle to find someone are

Few engineers take the WAU qualification these days I don't because there are so few around my area.

If you find someone willing they are taking in the unknown.
It would be difficult to price etc

Couple of questions for u

If u find an engineers you agre. Price he spends 2 days and it works but isnt safe or doesn't work are you still willing to pay home for his time?

Do you have the manuals etc for the "new" one?

Did the guy that installed the hob have a WAU qualification?
Did he leave any paperwork as to why he "didn't like the look of it"

 

[Mikimak]

Hi there, he didn't like the look of the old system because he was fairly young and didn't seem to have a clue about it, he just refused to light it and advised me to replace it - didn't leave any paperwork but did some tests (for drops) after installing the hob and he wouldn't have left the gas on if any problems, he did ask about carbon monoxide detector which we do have.

I just thought a new system would be safer and more effective.

I'm confident the newer J&S system will work and it looks new to my eyes. I've even gone as far as reading the installation guide which is available as a PDF on the J&S website and it looks like I will need new ducting as its downflow model and possibly a new flue and modifications to the cupboard its in.

I was hoping to find someone with J&S accreditation to advise, install and test it and if any problems did arise repair it and then service it every year, but I don't seem to be having much luck so far. I would pay for the time even if a lost cause which I doubt it will be.

 

[Agile]

So slowly are starting to realise it ma need new ducting made up. Do you imagine they make this in the driveway outside?

Do you know about the current flue?

|Do you think it contains asbestos?

Tony

 

[Mikimak]

Thanks for reply...No slowly about it I knew before buying it it would need new ducting - current duct isn't really a duct it's made out of plasterboard. The current heater blows into it from the side and it has two vents at the bottom that blow into living room and two at top that blows into two bedrooms. A return air feed goes from the kitchen ceiling vent to other side of heater.

I'm no expert but I think I would need a flexible hose to run from top of new unit to go to kitchen vent for return air and then some new ducting for heater to sit on (as it blows down) that then runs horizontal a bit then vertical into existing duct.

I'm not really sure what ducting would be like, maybe replace plasterboard with thermal board or even fiberglas board? Not even that much needed. I can buy new registers for it for better airflow.

I'm 99% sure the flu contains asbestos but may be a way around it, maybe reuse it or run another one through it or line it maybe? Again no idea really that's why I need someone that knows warm air and the system.

The fact that it doesn't have any proper metal ducting may be better as easier to change/ add something in.

 

[bernardgreen]

An alternative option could be to fit a gas to water boiler on an external wall and a water to air heat exchanger and fan where the existing gas to warm air unit is fitted. Pump the hot water from new boiler through the new water to air heat exchanger.

 

[FiremanT]

Have you tried to contact J&S for a list of accredited installers?
Try had and long enough, and you will find someone.

IMO, the only real chance of danger on the "new" unit would be a split heat exchanger.

Have you looked at the Gas Safe Find an engineer facility ?:
http://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/registersearch/findbusiness.aspx?ep=JHFUCPnp43kojrkljRcr6Qhz8Zh7HZ1HbB60OOvBTYhESmLvHLgifr+7IwuxHAUJcpoT67NhAqyoiMfhgl93nN4W7pdW+ndNevwEZ6TygHV4K5LIzGGpae/CF7H4oq7sAFm9KGSr4h9nuBlPbsXf4MMaHW6Kgn+HelqP3ZX9U98&returnurl=http://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/help/find_a_registered_business.aspx

 

[Mikimak]

I've just contacted J&S for some advice. I've never heard of the GasSafe search and its very useful. I've found a couple of engineers near me that cover warm air so that's very handy.

Will see what J&S say first then will try contact a few of them.

I'm sure I will find someone eventually, thanks for the help.

 

[simond]

As described above, you have the alternatives of J&S Warm Air, an air handling unit running through a boiler, or a Lennox G61MPVT.

The Lennox condensing warm air unit is way superior to the UK versions, but the smallest of the 4 models is a bit too large for your application. For the Air Handling Units we fit an inverter driven MultiCalor unit, which is beautifully made, and exceptionally cheap to run.

The only way to fabricate neat ductwork is in a workshop, which is how we do it, using a firm who will make up bends etc millimetre perfect using CNC machines (it used to be by hand of course).

We don't cover Leeds but I can tell you that we wouldn't be interested in fitting any unit procured by Ebay, even if it was in the house next door.

There's a huge difference in repairing an old car with used parts for personal use, and contracting with the general public in their house. Remember, there is no upside for a professional installer installing secondhand stuff; they don't make a margin on the gear, they can't accurately predict which bits will be missing, they can't assume it is safe when it is delivered etc etc.

 

[Phill Peck]

An alternative option could be to fit a gas to water boiler on an external wall and a water to air heat exchanger and fan where the existing gas to warm air unit is fitted. Pump the hot water from new boiler through the new water to air heat exchanger.

Sounds ideal for a intergas combi and a couple of lunch boxes