Water based or Oil based paint: why so little info?

[Gerrydelasel]

I don't know much about paint, but one of the most important things, it seems to me, is:
IS IT F***ING WATER BASED OR OIL BASED????

So why don't they making it bloody obvious on the tin? Oooh no, I have to read the small print and look for the bit where it tells you what to clean the brushes in. And if you go on the manufacturer's website it often doesn't tell you at all!* You actually have to pick up and actual tin to find out!! Why do they DO this?? Why isn't it on the front of the tin in big letters??
Also, is 'quick dry' paint always water based? So many questions.

OK, take a deep breath, Gerry. I guess my main question is: can you paint water based onto oil based, or vice versa, willy nilly? If for example you want to use an oil-based gloss, do you also have to start with oil-based primer and oil-based undercoat? Or can you mix and match? Does it matter? And why is this info so bloody secret??

Another question: can anyone recommend a sandable primer for interior woodwork?

*Take this example: is it water based or oil based (yes I know it's American, I just happened to be looking at it)? https://www.sherwin-williams.com/homeowners/products/premium-wall-wood-primer

 

[geraldthehamster]

I am not a tradesman, merely an amateur who has done a huge amount of interior decoration. This is my opinion:

I look first for the big circular symbol that tells you the VOC level. High/very high VOC = solvent based; low VOC=water based, anything in the middle I read the brush-washing instructions as you do. For anything other than plastered walls I prefer solvent-based for everything.

Can you paint one over the other? I have. All sorts. And none has fallen off. I have found sometimes that if you paint water based over solvent based, it can crawl. That suggests that you should probably avoid doing it, but key the surface if you do do it. In the case of my bathroom panelling, when I saw this happening (WB eggshell over SB primer) I simply applied two more coats of eggshell over the slightly-crawled bottom coat, and none has fallen off or otherwise deteriorated 5 years later.

I'm certain that none of the above is good practice, and I probably wouldn't listen to me if I were me.

Cheers
Richard

 

[Gerrydelasel]

OK, another question I have is: in Britian is there a different name for 'paint conditioner'? I can't seem to find much of it for sale.

 

[opps]

You can get Floetrol in the UK

https://www.promain.co.uk/floetrol-paint-additive.html

It is marketed by Owatrol and the oil based version is called, erm... Owatrol.

Additionally XIM make paint extenders but they are less commonly found in UK decorators' merchants.

https://www.rustoleum.com/product-catalog/consumer-brands/xim/additives

Both Floetrol and Owatrol are great products.

 

[opps]

I don't know much about paint, but one of the most important things, it seems to me, is:
IS IT F***ING WATER BASED OR OIL BASED????

So why don't they making it bloody obvious on the tin? Oooh no, I have to read the small print and look for the bit where it tells you what to clean the brushes in. And if you go on the manufacturer's website it often doesn't tell you at all!* You actually have to pick up and actual tin to find out!! Why do they DO this?? Why isn't it on the front of the tin in big letters??
Also, is 'quick dry' paint always water based? So many questions.

OK, take a deep breath, Gerry. I guess my main question is: can you paint water based onto oil based, or vice versa, willy nilly? If for example you want to use an oil-based gloss, do you also have to start with oil-based primer and oil-based undercoat? Or can you mix and match? Does it matter? And why is this info so bloody secret??

Another question: can anyone recommend a sandable primer for interior woodwork?

*Take this example: is it water based or oil based (yes I know it's American, I just happened to be looking at it)? https://www.sherwin-williams.com/homeowners/products/premium-wall-wood-primer

The Sherwin-Williams paint says that it is latex and that it is quick drying. I would therefore assume that it is (probably) waterbased. I do see your point though.

As a very general rule of thumb if the product isn't shellac based or two-pack, then I assume that any quick drying product is waterbased.

In most cases you can apply oilbased finishes over waterbased primers/undercoats without any problems. If you apply WB finishes over OB undercoats before all of the solvents have evaporated you are likely to end up with fish eyes.

I am not a fan of waterbased wood finishes. I find that the colour obliteration is vastly inferior to OB and the paints don't flow as well. Many of them tend to eff up my brushes as well!

Counter to the impression that I have given thus far, I like the Leyland acrylic (WB) primer. It doesn't tend to swell wood as much as some others and is the only WB primer that I found that sands without clogging my sandpaper. Another bonus is that it is cheap- places such as Selco sell it for about £20 (5L). It does however have pretty poor colour blocking but I don't mind because I only ever apply OB Dulux Trade finish coats over it.

Seldom mentioned- providing that you aren't changing colours, brushes used in OB can be used indefinitely without needing to be cleaned. Pop them in a Brushmate box, ensure that you top up the pads from time to time and you can forget about the hassle of cleaning. Granted, you can wrap WB brushes in a bag but all too often the paint hardens on the bristles whilst you are using them.

http://www.decoratingwarehouse.co.u...te-systems/brush-mate--brushmate-trade-4-/329

 

[Gerrydelasel]

brushes used in OB can be used indefinitely without needing to be cleaned. Pop them in a Brushmate box, ensure that you top up the pads from time to time and you can forget about the hassle of cleaning.

Interesting -not heard of this before. Would I be right in thinking the vapour is what does the work, and the box is just an air-tight box? I wonder what the vapour fluid is made from?*

*EDIT: The internet thinks petroleum/meths? Cellulose thinners also a possiblity.

 

[opps]

Interesting -not heard of this before. Would I be right in thinking the vapour is what does the work, and the box is just an air-tight box? I wonder what the vapour fluid is made from?*

*EDIT: The internet thinks petroleum/meths? Cellulose thinners also a possiblity.

I don't know what they use. It doesn't smell like meths or cellulose. It is cheap enough to prevent me from finding an alternative.

 

[dcdec]

There is a ton of information on this forum about OB and WB. Problem is as the site doesn't allow stickies so the regulars get fed up with repeating themselves. It's the main reason why i don't come on much anymore. Generally water based or alkyd hybrid will be labelled quick drying. For me OB paint still yellows far too quickly, i did a bedroom at home just to see if its improved and it yellowed within a couple of months. Dulux quick drying u/c and gloss is pretty good but as opps says coverage is still an issue, brushes don't like it much either.