Water in ceiling of an old “inner” porch

[bobturnip]

Some advice please. We live in a standard UK 1960’s semi, which originally had a front door through to a porch with an inner front door. But at some point this “porch space” has been incorporated into the hallway, with just one front door on the outer wall of the house.

Inside, above this front door, we have water - seeping into the ceiling and the wall above the door. Moss grows on the wall outside, in a line along the lintel above the door. The damp patch inside seems worse in the days after wet weather.

We have found no leaks from the bathroom or heating above. Can’t see any issues with the upvc door frame. Been up in the loft - can’t see any signs of roof leak or rainwater into the wall cavity.

We had a surveyor come and tell us it was just condensation. But we don’t believe him. I drilled a small hole into the ceiling near the door, with hope of using a camera probe to investigate - but there appears to be brickwork or cement immediately above, and the thick ceiling board appears to be composed of a bluish/grey fibrous material I’m not sure isnt asbestos, so I’m scared of prying any further.

Could this be a lintel/tray issue? The upstairs wall is a cavity wall, and it appears to meet a non-cavity wall around the front door (a rectangle I imagine would have been wooden porch frame/surround once).

Thing is, we just don’t know who else to ask - a builder ? A plasterer ? Another surveyor ?
Any ideas or suggestions would be great, thanks. We are getting desperate !

 

[KenGMac]

bobturnip, good evening.

Any chance of some digital images? especially external of the area above the door with the moss? and internally of the material the ceiling is constructed of?

As for this ceiling material? was it "soft" to put a hole into? or was it hard, needing a drill or similar? also any idea as to how thick the "blue / grey" material is, it could be a material called "Cellotex" [not the modern insulation material] which was used extensively and is a soft fibrous non-Asbestos board, in effect an early type of [poor] insulation.

Are the external cavities in the property filled with any form of retro-filled insulation?

Ken.

 

[bobturnip]

Hi Ken, thanks for your response. I’m attaching some photos. Inside, I’ve marked the damp patch out with green marker. The wall above the door and window are often black with mildew. You can see where I tried 3 exploratory drill holes. They all hit what I think is Breeze block. Outside, you can see the area that’s been “converted”. I’ve marked the line where the moss was, although currently the moss has been scrubbed off and fresh paint applied (we also repaired a patch of rendering before realising that the rendering was not causing the problem).

To answer questions about the ceiling board - it’s about 2cm thick. I used a drill bit, which went in very easily. I can push a pen nib into it - but then the whole area is damp with water, so the board is soft. We have asbestos soffits on the house - but I’m assuming this area is conversion done at a later date.

I’d be very grateful for any suggestions. This damp problem has plagued us for at least about 2 years now, and I worry what damage it might be causing.

 

[foxhole]

Have you checked the pipes are undamaged and hopper
To the right is clear , if it overflows it could be a cause .

 

[bobturnip]

Hi, yes I’ve checked the pipe work and hopper on the right of the door. It doesn’t appear to be leaking or overflowing.

 

[KenGMac]

bobturnip, good evening, again.

If you have eliminated the waste pipes, including the area of pipework contained within the wall???

There is a possibility?? [stress the last word] that the lintel is a "Boot lintel" [suggest you Google same?] where there is a Damp proof Membrane incorporated into the two sections of the lintel.

Given the age of the property [1960s] there is a possibility that a failure of the DPM is causing the trouble, in that any penetrating rain water will run down the inner surface of the external leaf and hit the boot lintel DPM, if there is a failure of the Damp proof on this lintel then the water can / will leak into the property. Must admit i have seen a load of these, generally accompanied by a failed lintel when the lintels reinforcing corrodes and cracks the concrete?

Just a consideration?

Ken.

 

[bobturnip]

Thanks Ken I really appreciate your input. The pipework seems okay on the outside, but I will have a check for any leak on the section that runs through the wall itself.

(btw to answer an earlier question - we do have retrofitted cavity insulation).

As for the lintel membrane - what would you suggest is our next step in diagnosing/confirming this ? Do we call a builder ? Or a surveyor ?

thanks again.

 

[KenGMac]

bobturnip, good evening, again.

Can only suggest you consider removing the wet internal finishes to allow access to the area of wall above the door, you can then knock a hole in to see what is going on? if the Insulation is saturated then that is most likely cause? But I am still suspicious of a failed Dam Proof layer on what I have assumed will be a Boot lintel [given the age of the property?]

As for the internal material suggest you Google 1/. Cellotex and 2/. Stramit
1/. Is a soft brown fiber board, often used as Sarking boards below the slates especially on Ex-Council properties [it was cheap?]
2/. Is a form of compressed straw.

If the "inner" area of the original build was exposed to the elements, no front door? then either of the two materials noted here could have been used as the ceiling material?

Given there is a retro-filled cavity, this will stop you using a Camera through an externally bored hole. Failed Cavity insulation is a complete topic in itself.

Ken

 

[bobturnip]

Thank you for your helpful replies. Been away for awhile so only just read your recent post. Whilst we were away it has rained a lot, and the damp patch is wetter and bigger. So it's almost certainly rain penetrating somehow, rather than internal plumbing. I will look at removing a section of the ceiling board. I'll just hope it's one of the materials you suggest and not asbestos.

From what I can gather from a similar house in our area, the porch originally had an outer wooden frame window and door, flush with the front of the house. Inside our hallway where the inner front door was, there is a cavity wall archway.