Water proofing a rill

[opps]

Hi all, a customer has two rills that run along side their garden path.

Each rill loses water. They are tiled, but I guess that they weren't tanked.

After a few days the water level drops off.

It is obvious that that the tiles in the rill have leakage point.

I was contemplating using something like CT1 to cover the horizontal joins, But I guess that would need to run it up the horizontal joins.

The customer is hoping that I can brush a product on to the tiled joins in the rill.

I am thinking that I need to used an oscillating saw, open up the grout lines and take it from there

Feed back will help

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Out of interest what feeds the rills?

'Rills' are not something I'd heard of before.

 

[opps]

Out of interest what feeds the rills?

'Rills' are not something I'd heard of before.

Sorry, for got to include the photo



The water is pumped from a reservoir under the lawn at the far left of the garden. It pumps the water to each of the channels at the top step. The water runs down the steps and along the length of the path, where is then runs back to the reservoir and is pumped back.

The channels are tiled sides and bottom. The fact that (when the pumps are turned off) the lower channels lose water make me think that they were not initially tanked.

Will grout be absolutely water proof or should I replace the grout with something like an MS polymer?

I guess it is similar to grouting a swimming pool (not something I have ever done).

 

[flameport]

After a few days the water level drops off.

Not necessarily a leak. Could be evaporation.

 

[opps]

Not necessarily a leak. Could be evaporation.

Nah, both definitely leak. During the dark winter months (with no rain) they can lose 3" of water in about 3 days.

Unfortunately, it is difficult to work out where the potential leaks are. The ends nearest the house empty first. The other ends tend to take longer to dry out (and seldom become completely void of water). To me- that suggests that the leaks are somewhere in the first 60-75% of each rill. It also suggests that the rills are not perfectly level.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

So is the water supposed to flow or does it just sit there? I think that's a bit of a floored design tbh for this very reason, unless it's actually tanked it would never stay waterproof forever, there's is no way tiles and grout can stay waterproof for long in our climate. Anyway, can you stick a bung or a sandbag or something in at certain intervals to see if you can narrow it down?

I can't see what shape the channels are, are pavers either side overhanging? Whats under those edges to keep the water in?

 

[Tigercubrider]

I doubt there is an easy, cheap way of doing this?
A long strip of pond liner or rigid U shaped 1/2 pipe might work but to look good I’d imagine all the paving edges would have to come up for the liner to tuck under. Maybe a fibreglass liner built in situ?
Any paint on type proofer will suffer from the shallow winter weather or summer sun

I thought that Rills normally had a return pipe and hidden pump?

When I lived at my family home my ambition had been to build a rill like ”stream” running across the bottom of the garden and back again.

Swell HDPE Pond Liner 40-Year Guarantee With Heavy Duty Underlay

0.35mm-thick HDPE pond liner with heavy duty underlay Supple, UV resistant and comes with 40-year guarantee Available in a wide variety of sizes

www.swelluk.com

Small Rill Fibreglassing, Ashwell - Aquamaintenance and Services Limited

The client contacted us as she had a small rill running around her courtyard garden, that was constructed of concrete and painted with a sealant paint. Unfortunately, the feature had started to loose water and was no longer able to be run. The client was keen to have the feature fibreglassed...

aquamaintenance.net

 

[foxhole]

Square line guttering would be more effective as it’s water proof .

 

[robinbanks]

EPDM? Treat it like a very narrow, long, flat roof?

 

[opps]

So is the water supposed to flow or does it just sit there? I think that's a bit of a floored design tbh for this very reason, unless it's actually tanked it would never stay waterproof forever, there's is no way tiles and grout can stay waterproof for long in our climate. Anyway, can you stick a bung or a sandbag or something in at certain intervals to see if you can narrow it down?

I can't see what shape the channels are, are pavers either side overhanging? Whats under those edges to keep the water in?

The sand bags is a good idea.

I agree in that I suspect that the channels are not tanked.

The water is supposed to cascade down the channels either side of the steps, the water level in the rills is limited to a couple of inches. At the far end there are little barriers with grates that allow the water to go back to the reservoir. The channels are about 3" deep, meaning that the water doesn't reach the pavers.

When the pump is not on, the water just sits in the channel. At the moment, because the water level drops so much, the customer has to use a hose and run water into one of the grills to top up the reservoir.

 

[opps]

I doubt there is an easy, cheap way of doing this?
A long strip of pond liner or rigid U shaped 1/2 pipe might work but to look good I’d imagine all the paving edges would have to come up for the liner to tuck under. Maybe a fibreglass liner built in situ?
Any paint on type proofer will suffer from the shallow winter weather or summer sun

I thought that Rills normally had a return pipe and hidden pump?

When I lived at my family home my ambition had been to build a rill like ”stream” running across the bottom of the garden and back again.

Swell HDPE Pond Liner 40-Year Guarantee With Heavy Duty Underlay

0.35mm-thick HDPE pond liner with heavy duty underlay Supple, UV resistant and comes with 40-year guarantee Available in a wide variety of sizes

www.swelluk.com

Small Rill Fibreglassing, Ashwell - Aquamaintenance and Services Limited

The client contacted us as she had a small rill running around her courtyard garden, that was constructed of concrete and painted with a sealant paint. Unfortunately, the feature had started to loose water and was no longer able to be run. The client was keen to have the feature fibreglassed...

aquamaintenance.net

Sorry I should have mentioned that there are grills at the far end for the water to return to the reservoir. At the far end, there are raised sections that keep a couple of inches of water captive in the rills. Any excess water running in to the rills runs back to the reservoir.

I suspect that you are correct that any brush on finish will fail, especially given that it will applied to black ceramic tiles.

 

[opps]

Square line guttering would be more effective as it’s water proof .

EPDM? Treat it like a very narrow, long, flat roof?

Both good ideas, but unfortunately I know that the customers won't accept either option.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

If money was no object the dished tiles would all be lifted, the base underneath tanked and the tiles re-laid.

 

[Odds]

They missed a trick by not putting a small pool at the foot of the feature. It'd balance out the design and provide a water reservoir for the level to remain constant.