Water Softenors - advice please

[nec]

Hi All
We are looking to install a water softenor to help prevent the build up of crud etc on everything that our hard water comes into contact with as well as providing the benefits of bathing etc in soft water.
I have one of those electric gizmos that wrap around the incoming feed pipe but they do not work.
The softenors that I have looked at appear to work either with a timed refresh or as the water is draw off. They range in price from a few to several hundred £'s.
I need to accomodate a household with 4 beds albeit there are only 2 - 3 people resident at the mo.
I appreciate with these softenors that the supply to the kitchen tap has to remain on the hard water for heath reasons.
Any advice please as to the most reliable brands, do they share common workings etc would be of great help.
Thanx in anticipation.

 

[bathjobby]

,nec, I think you may get the moderators all over you for that kind a question, however;
I have been in your position for years in my current house i.e. 4 beds, 2 to 3 people, hard water, electronic softener gizmo.
After a lot of research 4 months ago I bit the bullet and installed a whole house water softener and I'm delighted with it.
In the end I went for a top of the range one that has dual filter cylinders, no electrics required as the flushing system works off the mains pressure, and it is not timed (which wastes salt as they flush the filters wether they need or nort, even when away on holiday), it monitors the amount of water that has flowed to determine when to flush and it does one cylinder at a time so there is always one cylinder still active. It also takes salt in block, tablet or granule. We use a lot of water and its taking about 10kg of salt a month = £1 per week. I think we are saving that in less cleaning solvents (and the time it took to clean), use less shampoo, no more salt in the dishwasher, etc, All I do is pour a bag in once a month and job done.
We have lovely soft water, no more lime / calcium stains every where, wonderful. Oh yes, and its guaranteed for 5 years, it fits in a standard floor standing kitchen cabinet which not all do as they are too tall and it was almost half the advertised £1150 and I've just looked and its still at the sale price. Hope this helps, go for it !

 

[steve28]

Yes, but what Brand/Model was it?

I want one as well for the same reasons and have been trying to persuade my wife for years. The health issue is a big one with lots of commentary for and against. But my kids are now adult anyway.

 

[bathjobby]

I thought someone may ask, oh, and by the way, they have been excellent on customer service via e-mail. Here is the one I mentioned, not the best looker in the world, but hey, it lives under the sink.
http://www.emwc.uk.com/Details.asp?ProductID=87
EMWC is the East Midlands Water Company.
I would also recommend buying their fixing kit for two reasons. 1) the valves are nicely labelled. 2) the connecting pipes have a wide internal bore, at least 15mm, whereas if you put the washing machine type pipes on, their internal bore is much less than 15mm and most of your house cold water has to go through this.
As I said earlier, wished I'd fitted one years ago, delighted.

 

[JohnD]

I too have a whole-house system, couldn't recommend it too highly, it's great.

the health risk is that it puts a tiny quantity of sodium Bicarbonate (like you used to take for indigestion) into the water IN EXCHANGE FOR the amount of calcium carbonate it takes out. So if you are on a low sodium diet, for example kidney or heart probs, you can leave the cold tap in the kitchen connected to the hard water, then it won't affect you.

I have an old Permutit, but the local water softener company who infrequently service it tell me that the Permutit name was bought up by some other manufacturer, and it is no longer a guarantee of top quality.

If I were you I'd buy one that has a water meter to tell it when to refresh the resin with salt, otherwise you will end up refreshing it too often, or not often enough. I have a feeling I might buy an inexpensive machine, with a good guarantee, and run the risk that it might go wrong and have to be replaced. Mine has lasted 20 years and been repaired twice. You can plumb it in yourself as easy as a washing machine. If you pay someone else to do it try to get a long warranty.

 

[bathjobby]

If I were you I'd buy one that has a water meter to tell it when to refresh the resin with salt, otherwise you will end up refreshing it too often, or not often enough.

Mine has lasted 20 years

Bit out of date I suspect, why have one which tells you to do this rather than the latest which automatically do it (not timed). That way, you fit and forget apart from salt !

 

[JohnD]

If I were you I'd buy one that has a water meter to tell it when to refresh the resin with salt, otherwise you will end up refreshing it too often, or not often enough.

Mine has lasted 20 years

Bit out of date I suspect, why have one which tells you to do this rather than the latest which automatically do it (not timed). That way, you fit and forget apart from salt !

I meant, get one like yours which measures its own water usage and automatically refreshes itself. (I didn't mean get one that signals to you when to do it).

Mine is old and has a timeclock, but I prefer the self-regulating type like yours.

Additionally, I buy my salt in 20kg bags, so a softener which holds >25kg of salt means you can tip the whole bag in and not have a part-used bag lying about. Any spilled salt is very corrosive to steel and concrete.

 

[bathjobby]

Crossed wires JohnD.
The one I've indicated here will also probably take 20kg of salt at a time if you even the salt out around the unit as you pour it in. My preference is just to pour 10gk in, which doesn't require any pushing around the unit of the salt and you know its going to last approximately 4 weeks.

 

[nec]

Thanx for the responses so far but further - does anyone know what happens if when filling the bath and someone else uses the kitchen sink or washing machine etc i.e. the system draws off more than has been softened - does it just revert to unsoftened water?

 

[bathjobby]

No, it passes all water through its filters as it is drawn from the mains. So if you have enough mains pressure without one, having one doesn't change it.

 

[nec]

bathjobby

Ideal - thank you. Next move is to see what price they are through my merchant - they may get a bit more off the price.

 

[nec]

For the information of anyone else looking at Water Softenors this is the address of the manufacturer of the one mentioned earlier and I have asked for a rep to visit so that I can pick his brain on the subject.
He will probably want to make a sale at the same time but that will depend on the price - of course!

 

[nec]

http://www.uk-water-softeners.co.uk/index.htm

 

[bathjobby]

nec, I have already been down that route with uk-water-softeners (kevin goody). I exchanged several e-mails with him and sent him links to 2 machines I was comparing his against, one of them being this http://www.emwc.uk.com/Details.asp?ProductID=87 which I eventually bought.
They are almost identical specifications (both top of the range twin cylinder types) and he was quoting his best price at 'well over' £1000. His only angle seemed to be that he believed his had a better (finer) filter although this was never really substantiated. In fact he got rather stroppy and went into a bit of a rant, which is strange for a man apparently trying to sell me something, here is an extract from the final e-mail he sent me;

Both deals you mention are indeed very competative, I am not sure why they are selling at that price as they are not making hardly any money on the softener, I would be out of business if I sold for that amount, but some people cannot sell and cannot understand that giving your profit to customers means bankruptcy, but they will learn in time.

Hope this helps and many thanks for your interest.

Kevin Goody UK Water Softeners

After that I decided I didn't want to do business with him even if he had a comparable product / offer.

I really have very little more to say on this topic as I did very extensive research resulting in a top of the range product at a price well below some of the lesser models around, have had comprehensive and fast responses to the emails I sent to the company, am delighted with the results from the softener and how cheap it is to run (£1 a week in salt) which I estimate is less than I am saving on cleaning materials not to mention time. Have you actually followed the link I supplied and looked at the machine I am referencing ? Nothing more to add really, other than if you go ahead and meet Mr Goody, let us know how it goes. Stick a printout of this machine http://www.emwc.uk.com/Details.asp?ProductID=87 specification and price under his nose and see if you get the same response as I did in the email he sent me.

 

[nec]

bathjobby

After reading yours I went on to the EMWC website yesterday and left my contact details. Within a short time a chap from the EMWC rang to discuss the pros and cons of their water softenors. He also said that they are made for them by Harveys.
I followed this up thinking that there may be a cost saving with Harveys via their site at uk water softenors - a very informative site to gain the further understanding on these products that I am seeking.
Harveys provide a home demo which I have signed up for (saves me a journey to Leicester at the very least) where I can see and gain further information on the Twin Cylinder softenors.
I now await a salesperson making contact, in his email to me Kevin Goody has indicated someone will be making contact soon.
Thanks for your input - I reckon I now have most of the answers to my initial questions, however if anyone else with the experience of using a different type of softenor wishes to chip in that would be appreciated also.
Will keep the file updated.