Wet room ventilation

[Dippy]

After years of a drawn-out refurb of my house I have finally come to request LABC completion only to be told that I should have fitted mechanical ventilation in my new (relocated) utility room.

On the basis that (a) there has been no such ventilation in the room for several years and no evidence of any moisture problem (it is a small room with a window and a door to the outside, and a vented tumble dryer, which might explain this) and (b) retrofitting mechanical ventilation will be a real pain, I am trying to think how I can solve the problem: I don't seem to NEED the ventilation, but I must HAVE it to meet part F.

From my brief study of part F 2010, I can't see any requirement that extract ventilation has to be fixed, and that a manually operated intermittent extract fan will meet the requirement if it has a 30l/s rate. So it seems to me that I could simply place an in-line ventilation fan properly fitted with a flex cable and 3-pin plug on the work surface and run a flexible ventilation hose out of the window (or through the cat-flap). This would be used during laundry cycles or significant use of the sink, but put away in the cupboard at other times.

I am inclined to inform my LABC that I intend to do this, but would like to hear comments from readers here first.

 

[DevilDamo]

You would need to provide mechanical extract ventilation ducting to external air. This can either be intermittent (i.e. operated via the lightswitch with an overrun), which would extract at 30 litres per second or continuous, extracting at 8 litres per second. Intermittent extract can be controlled manually or automatically. Manually is via the lightswitch while automatically is normally via a mechanical or electrical controller.

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_AD_F_2010_V2.pdf

The requirement is on page 19. The definitions are pages 7-8.

 

[Dippy]

Thanks, although that doesn't answer my question as to if it needs to be a fixed system: I don't see anywhere in the document that this is a requirement and so a temporary/removable system should suffice.

 

[DevilDamo]

It has always been fixed. I have never known or come across any temporary/removable systems. Page 4 and page 9 of AD F mentions "fixed systems".

In your original post, you stated...

I don't seem to NEED the ventilation, but I must HAVE it to meet part F.

A slight play on words to be honest! You could try and use your same method with anything (e.g. I don't NEED to wear a seatbelt, but it's the law and similarly to this situation, it's the regulations). Although you don't appear to have encountered any problems with condensation, etc... which would warrant the need for a mechanical extract fan, you do NEED it to comply with the Building Regulations.

And also...

I could simply place an in-line ventilation fan properly fitted with a flex cable and 3-pin plug on the work surface

A plug on the work surface in an area where there is potential for it to become in contact with water?

If you have an external window AND door... what are the main reasons for it being a "real pain" to install mechanical extract? I could slightly understand if it was an internal room (i.e. with no windows). The requirement for mechanical extract has always been a BR requirement so you would have known from day one.

 

[Dippy]

The point I am making is that if I NEEDED ventilation in this utility room then I would have installed it. Now that I am aware that it is a requirement, I have a choice on exactly how I implement it. Since I don't NEED it I am not very enthusiastic about installing a fixed system if a temporary one would meet the requirements.

It is clear that you know part F well and have not been able to demonstrate that it is a requirement for a system to be fixed (as the references to fixed limits the scope of the document, i.e. parts of it do not apply to temporary systems). For this I thank you because it gives me confidence to argue with the LABC if I have to.

Maybe I have over-reacted with my 'real pain' comment. I am simply reluctant to do the work when it will provide no demonstrable benefit to me.

BTW part P covers position of electrical points in kitchens & utility rooms - they can be within 300mm of a sink.

 

[DevilDamo]

The Approved Documents are ways in complying with the Building Regulations. They are there as a guide and there will always be alternative ways in achieving compliance. Building Control are there for that reason. If you're proposing another way, then ask/tell them and not come on here arguing the fact you don't feel you need it.

At the end of the day, they're the people who will (or will not) issue you with a completion certificate, not us.

 

[^woody^]

You don't need ventilation, and there is no benefit to you?

Then you have checked all the structural timber behind the plasterboard, and will expose it all to allow constant monitoring? Throughout the property.

The requirement is for a permanent fixed ventilation system. Just because you can't find the word 'fixed' does mean anything other than your lack of understanding of the regulations. It is implicit

You might also want to refer to BS5250
You might also want refer to the IEE regs for electrical installation of fans - which your idea contravenes ...... which impacts on Part P

 

[seank1]

Why is there so little information on ventilation for wet rooms. We have just had one built and the condensation is unacceptable. The builder fitted a 100 mm fan which he said was powerful to do the job, but it took far to long to clear the steam. I think the problems are two fold, one the large amount of hot water being delivered at the shower head and according to a friend a 100 fan ticks the box where ventilation is concerned but we need a 150mm fan preferably in-line. Any comments welcome.

 

[seank1]

Why is there so little information on ventilation for wet rooms. We have just had one built and the condensation is unacceptable. The builder fitted a 100 mm fan which he said was powerful enough to do the job, but it took far too long to clear the steam. I think the problems are two fold, one the large amount of hot water being delivered at the shower head and according to a friend a 100 fan ticks the box where building control ventilation requirements are concerned but we need a 150mm fan preferably in-line. Any comments welcome.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Why is there so little information on ventilation for wet rooms. We have just had one built and the condensation is unacceptable. The builder fitted a 100 mm fan which he said was powerful enough to do the job, but it took far too long to clear the steam. I think the problems are two fold, one the large amount of hot water being delivered at the shower head and according to a friend a 100 fan ticks the box where building control ventilation requirements are concerned but we need a 150mm fan preferably in-line. Any comments welcome.

Is there a question in there somewhere? Just fit a bigger fan