What are the legalities of this scenario?

[grrinc]

Too long a story, so I will cut to the chase with this one.....

After we recently done a cloakroom for a customer, the drains have backed up a few times. The first time I cleared it, but after then, they got a local drain firm round who suggested a survey. On the camera, they found an old back section of a boss adapter in the drain. Obviously, all eyes are now looking at me. I said I will come back, take out the boxing in the cloak room, cut a section out of the pipe and pull out the blockage.

However - the drain survey guys said the drain need digging up and replacing anyway, because they are old pitch fibre and in a bad way. They told the customer they can arrange to have the work done on an insurance claim. I kind of relaxed when the customer told me this.....

So....

A week later the customer calls me and asks am I prepared to pay half of the £1600.00 cost of digging up the drains. (!!!)

"erm.... did you not say that this work was being done by the insurance?"

"No - they declined. The drain firm tried to push it with a differently worded quote, but to no avail"

"So what has been done that costs £1600.00 then?"

"They dug up the drive to get to the blockage"

"But I told you I could get it out from above - you should of asked me first"

"Well the drain guys said you wouldnt of been able to"

"Well I beg to differ - I spent 6 years in drain clearing. I never needed to dig up once"

"well these guys know what they are talking about"

"with all due respect, they were trying to scam your insurance company - why should I believe they are not trying scam me and you?"

"well I will give you week to think about it befor I take my next step"

The last remark smelt like a legal threat to me. But anyway, what do you guys think? or indeed 'smell'?

 

[heatingman]

Don't know the legallities, but i feel that the customer has gone ahead with repair without consulting you or offering you the oppourtunity to repair.
Have you been blamed for boss, have you accepted responsibillity for the boss down drain.
Send a post to Lolla on plumbing & heating, he's had plenty of free advice, perhaps he will reciprocate.

 

[davydunt]

if they have not given you a chance to correct the fault before calling in a secondary party, then id say they would be in the wrong.

i wouldn't worry to much about it. could be far worse, like 16k.

relax and don't lose any sleep over it.

 

[^woody^]

Yes as the others have said, you should have been given the opportunity to correct the problem.

In fact you were, and you agreed to remedy it. That was the end of your obligation. The client effectively refused your offer.

The client has gone ahead and arranged work unrelated to the problem and he therefore is responsible for the costs.

Politely inform the client that you decline his offer to contribute.

Also inform him of his attempted fraud to claim on his insurance, and then rewording a quote to attempt another claim. Throw in words like "deception" and "attempting to obtain a pecuniary advantage"

State that any civil action he may make will be rigorously defended and counterclaimed against for the damage to the reputation of your company. And mention that his fraud attempt will obviously come to light, and that is a criminal matter which will mean his investigation by the Police and by the insurance firm

Also, if (and its a big if) he does pursue it, then it is a small claims track matter, and he can't claim legal costs and you can just state your case to a judge in an informal setting.

I would not worry about it

 

[Bilioustrumpstaine]

I would think that your liability may be for the cost of the camera survey but that is all. You offered to clear the blockage (which may or may not have been down to you) and that offer was declined.

If your guy wants to take it court just front him out and say you are more than happy to go and state your case. He is just trying to get some money back, the insurance company won't play ball and I suggest that you do the same.

If he has more than half a brain he will realise that he doesn't have a case, if he has less than half he will lose in court anyway.

I suggest that you keep a record of all the dates and conversations just in case.

 

[grrinc]

Cheers guys - thanks for your thoughts. I have yet to hear from the guy again. One half of me is hoping that he is just going to go away. The other half thinks I should call him and ask what he plans to do next.

Regarding the 'dropped' boss adaptor. I accept that it was done on my watch, but not through any negligence on my behalf. If I had of seen or heard it fall, I would of been in a very good position to simply pull it out. I guess that if it ever came to court - it could be argued that I did see or hear it fall down, but chose to ignore it hoping it would 'wash' away.

In any case, like you guys said, he did choose to ignore my offer to remedy the situation. The offer to pay for the drain survey seems fair however.

 

[grrinc]

An update that concerns me...


I have heard through the grapevine that the customer may deny that I offered to remedy the situation, or perhaps say that he tried to contact me to accept, but I wouldn't answer the phone. This would be a lie, but how can one proves this? It basically come down to personalities. Nothing is in writing ( except a few texts that reveal nothing ), but I have been told to expect a letter soon.

I know a visit to a solictor is now in order, but I wonder if any of you guys have a POV?

 

[^woody^]

If it goes to court, then it would be up to him to prove his claim, and your lack of proof is not proof that his claim is valid

In these situations it would be hard to prove either way, and so it will hinge on which version of events is the most probable/believable to the judge.

For your part a record of events will show diligence, and if you could show a policy or procedure which you have for dealing with similar situations, then this will help your defence no end. As will references, and testimonials - especially if from people who may have had a problem (not too many of these though!) and which demonstrate how you responded.

In short you need to make yourself as the good guy and the customer the aggrieved, vindictive claimant. Don't bring in anything personal against him, and be the 'victim' in all you say, and how you act

You should also put him on the back foot, as I mentioned previously, and mention his attempted fraud.

 

[crazycanuck]

make a copy of these threads may come in handy.

 

[grrinc]

Good tips there Woody - thanks.

There is a bathroom store that has been giving me all my work for the last 10 years. The guy went in there looking to shyt stir ( IMO ), but anyway, they pretty much told him that they have been recommending me for years and have never had a complaint about me. He walked out in a huff apparantly and the store in question have said they will gladly back my reputation up if it went to court. So I guess that would be helpful.

The fraud attempt is something I am still mulling over. He is in cahoots with the guy now, so I guess they can pretty much come with something to deny it. Either way, if he has made numerous attempts to claim, it will be on record I guess.

I have drafted up a 3 page letter which pretty much lists what happen. I am still awaiting his letter he has promised, so when I get it I can re tailor my letter to suit.

 

[tonybhoy]

Get it settled as quickly and as cost efficiently as you can mate.

If it goes to court there will only be one winner and it won't be you,regardless of your impeccable reputation which will count for nothing.

Poor wee innocent homeowner vs 'cowboy' tradesman?No contest!

Sorry to be brutal but that is the way it will turn out.

Get yer solicitor to make him an offer once he gets in touch.

Don't approach him yourself and don't make him an offer by yourself.

You need a letter of discharge in order that he doesn't come back for another bite from you if you do decide to make him an offer.

 

[big-all]

my thought on this situation

go through your phone records and highlight any phone calls you made after the finnished job

get a hold of the company that done the work and try and speak to the men and try and get statements from them as to when they where contacted to look and to repair the work
and try and get them to say what impression they had of the situation
wther they had the impression she was hasty ect just get as much ammo as possible

but dont let her know what your doing so when here side of the events dont match the fact you have ammo to throw at her and proove her lies

do you have it written down anywhere about a re-visit

and as has been said above print out this thread as proof of your honest proffesional intent

 

[grrinc]

Thanks again guys - your opinions are valued.

 

[grrinc]

Update

Letter received!!

In short -

He believes that he is doing me a favour by not asking to pay for the pitch fibre drain lining!!

He beleives he was justified in not asking for me to do the blockage clearing because A) there was no guarantee of success, B) no guarantee when I could start ( there was, I told him within 2 days ) and C) that a matching tiles may not of been found to replace the ones I would remove - even though we did the job only 2 months before!!

He has also decided to totally forget that the original boss job was a bodge job, even though I showed him on the day. I acknowledged it fell on my watch, but not as result of my negligence.

 

[tonybhoy]

Update

Letter received!!

In short -

He believes that he is doing me a favour by not asking to pay for the pitch fibre drain lining!!

He beleives he was justified in not asking for me to do the blockage clearing because A) there was no guarantee of success, B) no guarantee when I could start ( there was, I told him within 2 days ) and C) that a matching tiles may not of been found to replace the ones I would remove - even though we did the job only 2 months before!!

He has also decided to totally forget that the original boss job was a bodge job, even though I showed him on the day. I acknowledged it fell on my watch, but not as result of my negligence.

Pay him what he wants mate and get him to feck then move on.

Not worth the hassle,believe me.

Years ago I fitted an Ideal condensing boiler for a guy then four years later he came back to me claiming me for the heat ex I consulted my solicitor and gave him £350 ,end of.

I wasn't at fault but he would have won in a court case and I wasn't up for the nightmare of the whole thing.

You have no chance in these situations,none whatsoever.

Builder mate of mine tried to take a 'stance' with a customer who basically tried to rip him off by using the pretext of 'poor workmanship' to withhold payment ,builder near went bust cost him about £20K to defend an action of £2K.

Just not worth it.