What Oil Boiler?

[mikethehat]

Hi Guys,

Sorry to ask, no doubt again, about what boiler to get.

I'm moving house. The new one has an old coal fire, back boiler arrangement which will be coming out. There's no mains gas so I'm thinking oil is the way forwards.

The house is 3 bed, 1 bathroom, 2 living rooms but all the rooms are small so space is an issue. (in total about 75m^2 I think, certainly no bigger)

I'm minded to get an external boiler because of space issues however I can't find one that's rated as a A or B and I would like an efficient one.

Having read some of the threads in this topic I also want one that is easy for me and any visiting engineer to fix! No lost grommets, fiddly pipes and those cools things that cause water to leak from new and exciting places (Main Medway did get a mention).

Having said all that there is a small outbuilding and since starting my search I've noticed boiler house units that are cheaper! I assume that's because they are neither weather proof or crammed into small boxes for internal instillation. None are combi however.

So, I have 2 main questions.


Is there any manufacture or units I should steer clear of? Reliable is more useful than cheap.

Given space limitations is an external combi worth pursuing despite lower efficiency and higher cost?

and perhaps - should I skip combi and go for a boiler house model as they appear to be cheap, reliable and easy to fix? I'll stick with hot water tank in spare room if needs be.
*
Futher reading lead me to the impression that combi boilers may me more trouble than they are worth, at least 18 months ago. Is this still the case?
*
I know this is somewhat vague, but between you there's years of experience which counts for a lot.

thanks in anticipation....

mike

 

[oilman]

Hi Guys,

Sorry to ask, no doubt again, about what boiler to get.

I'm moving house. The new one has an old coal fire, back boiler arrangement which will be coming out. There's no mains gas so I'm thinking oil is the way forwards.

Forward to a smaller bank balance. This is not only oil, ALL fuels will be going up, so............

The house is 3 bed, 1 bathroom, 2 living rooms but all the rooms are small so space is an issue. (in total about 75m^2 I think, certainly no bigger)

I'm minded to get an external boiler because of space issues however I can't find one that's rated as a A or B and I would like an efficient one.

The non-condensing boilers, while working like a class A or B are not allowed to be described as such, so don't bother about this part.

Having read some of the threads in this topic I also want one that is easy for me and any visiting engineer to fix! No lost grommets, fiddly pipes and those cools things that cause water to leak from new and exciting places (Main Medway did get a mention).

Well you've lost me.

Having said all that there is a small outbuilding and since starting my search I've noticed boiler house units that are cheaper! I assume that's because they are neither weather proof or crammed into small boxes for internal instillation. None are combi however.

That's good.

So, I have 2 main questions.


Is there any manufacture or units I should steer clear of? Reliable is more useful than cheap.

Given space limitations is an external combi worth pursuing despite lower efficiency and higher cost?

and perhaps - should I skip combi and go for a boiler house model as they appear to be cheap, reliable and easy to fix? I'll stick with hot water tank in spare room if needs be.
*
Futher reading lead me to the impression that combi boilers may me more trouble than they are worth, at least 18 months ago. Is this still the case?
*
I know this is somewhat vague, but between you there's years of experience which counts for a lot.

thanks in anticipation....

mike

All conventional boilers are about as reliable as any other. If you have a boilerhouse model, get a top access one, as the front access are more difficult to clean, so they don't get done properly.

Don't get a combi. I earn loads of money fixing them. As you say they are less efficient, wasting huge amounts of heat, and you have no hot water backup. With a tank you can turn on the immersion heater when the boiler breaks down.

I hate Thermecon, they are a pain, though they're ok when they work (which is most of the time).

What about the HRM Wallstar? An excellent boiler, and doesn't need floor space. Easy to service, all oily bits are outside.

 

[Paul Barker]

I'll never be a match for oilman, but this is a UK based company down in Birmingham where they make things to a good standard.

http://www.heatingworld.com/grandee1/index.html

 

[oilman]

They are pretty good, though the wall mounted ones are more difficult to clean out than heatingworld would want you to think. Same burner as HRM. If you can cut a hole through a wall, the HRM is easier for me, though it's no better at heating water.

 

[simond]

Mr Hat

I would suggest you look at the Grant Outdoor Modules, the Band A ones are called Vortex. (www.grantuk.com).

We fit a fair number of these and have yet to have a problem. Oil boilers can give a whiff of oil sometimes, particularly after a service when the hoses have been renewed etc. In some ways an outdoor oil boiler ticks all the boxes.

All modern oil boilers are reasonably efficient; some of those you see rated as Band C are really Band B; the Government 'cap' some of the more efficient standard non condensing boilers so they are in Band C, no idea why.

 

[oilman]

Mr Hat

I would suggest you look at the Grant Outdoor Modules, the Band A ones are called Vortex. (www.grantuk.com).

But you did hint you have some arrangement or other with Grant in an earlier post.

We fit a fair number of these and have yet to have a problem. Oil boilers can give a whiff of oil sometimes, particularly after a service when the hoses have been renewed etc. In some ways an outdoor oil boiler ticks all the boxes.[

Except the "can be serviced in adverse weather conditions" box.

All modern oil boilers are reasonably efficient; some of those you see rated as Band C are really Band B; the Government 'cap' some of the more efficient standard non condensing boilers so they are in Band C, no idea why.

Non condensing oil boilers are as efficient as condensing gas boilers, the capping is probably the result of lobbying by the gas boiler manufacturers.

______________________________________________________

Save the planet, build another airport and save fuel duh!!!!

 

[Paul Barker]

Isn't there a problem with sooting at start up if you make them too efficient, or in othert words baffle the exhaust pathway too much?

 

[simond]

Oilman

We don't have an arrangement with Grant that is any different from the other gas and oil boiler manufacturers we specialize in.

I suspect we could make more margin, or win more jobs fitting cheaper boilers than the Grant Vortex; I happen to have more confidence in them.

At the end of the day I am resting my company's reputation on the products we fit, and I am happy to put that confidence in the Grant, Bosch and Kidd oil boilers we install.

I believe that they have designed the best solutions to the problems of efficiency versus longevity. The Kidd is probably unprecedented in this respect.

 

[oilman]

I have asked the question before, and still haven't got an answer that was clear and not waffled around. What is the payback time for a condensing boiler compared to a high efficiency non-condensing boiler, given the extra cost of the boiler, the extra cost of the condensate discharge, the extra cost of servicing? As long as you define some notional price for the oil and state what that price is, your choice.

HRM have quoted a figure, and they used the government approved efficiency figures which give non-condensing boilers a severe disadvantage. It was still a lot longer than salesmen tell people.

Grant are now going into solar heating, no doubt that will be sold like woodworm and damp treatment. High on talk, low on fact.

 

[Paul Barker]

Here here!

 

[mikethehat]

Thank you all You've been helpful and interesting.

there was a delay with buying the house (our first) but I gather that's not surprising so I've not done much other than think things over and phone solicitors.

With regard to a wall mounted unit, the most aesthetically pleasing place to put it would be in the bathroom but that seems a little foolish what with all the water and steam and conensation. I guess internal models aren't really designed to cope with that.

Soon I will be able to measure the spaces available and think some more