What would you do with this service pls? Pics..

[Safety First]

Hi all,
Door circa £1700 installed today. Not paid as are unhappy with defect. It was also not sealed underneath (you could post a letter under the threshold where insufficient silicone was applied).

Installer has come back out to seal under door. He verbally agreed with my assessment of the cause; that the finger pull has scored a mark in the surface but was not happy that I wanted something done about it, as it's so small and that manufacturer would quibble with him over who's liable for the defect.
He has not (in fairness to him) suggested that it was done since they left site today and before I came home. He considers that it's likely factory caused.

He proposes to gain paint from the manufacturer of the door to effect a repair, though I am doubtful that this will work. It's not a colour issue, but radial scratches.

It's visible from about 5' away and really lets down the appearance of a fab and (expensive door.)

I have yet to speak to customer services but the franchise have already said that its between installer and me..

So do any of you put hope in the paint remedy, and what would you accept as compensation? Any other advice? We'd be mad to have them take it away i.e. refuse to pay, but dummies to accept it as is and just say 'oh well!'

This is not about shaming- I have no plans to give details of 'whodunnit'.

Cheers.

Untitled

• Safety First
• 1 Apr 2015
• 1

Untitled

• Safety First
• 1 Apr 2015
• 1

 

[Deleted member 174758]

I don't like doing installs on a labour only basis because of this sort of issue. To safeguard myself I ALWAYS inspect everything from the packaging to the item(s) to be installed in great detail and note and photograph any and all defects gefore I start. If I find anything wrong it's then the cutomers call on what they want to do, however as I've dropped 1/2 to 1 day's work the customer will still be liable for my time regardless as the defect is not my fault. If, on the other hand I've damaged the item then it's down to me, although if I were installing a £1700 door I'd expect a bit more than standard day rate to cover the additional risk I would be running. The questions have to be (i) does the fitter have the proofs to cover himself (as otherwise he's in the frame) and (ii) was he being paid appropriately to cover the increased (financial) risk and finally (iii) is he appropriately insured (indemnity cover)

Not sure if you wanted it put that way, but that's the world we live in

 

[Safety First]

Thanks for your input. It's obviously a scenario fraught with potential problems like this and we are pretty sure there was some 'fat' in his price, given that it was not the cheapest by some way- he is based locally rather than being over an hours drive away.

About your point that it's not your fault that the item was damaged; would you not refuse custody of the item if it was faulty, given that you were due to take it to a customer paying (and so expecting) a fault free item?

Not picking fault with your way of working etc, just considering it as if it were me; i'd not take substandard on behalf of anyone else.

He might have seen the fault, taken a pic and called us- "do you want this, or shall I return it" I guess he'd get a pretty bad name for himself with the suppliers.
We are not in the trade, it's all guesswork, but it's a real bummer to have paid through the nose and get a shrug-type response...

It's a small mark, but in context of such a high end (for us) item it really grates...

 

[diy_fun_uk]

who installed the finger pull? the mark looks suspiciously as if it's been caused during installation.

 

[DHFrames]

As DIY said, the mark has been made by whoever installed the Yale lock, it's been secured slightly off center and then moved round (while still tight) into position. What door is it?

 

[Dave54]

As DIY said, the mark has been made by whoever installed the Yale lock, it's been secured slightly off center and then moved round (while still tight) into position. What door is it?

That's how it looks to me too FWIW.
The guy I use for stuff I don't want to or can't for whatever reason do myself does what J&K says, and tells me if there's anything wrong before he starts. Still I know, and trust him.
Unless the guy is an expert at finishing/ refinishing I wouldn't let him anywhere near the door with paint.
Does the supplier have any answers? Someone they use?
Finally what about something like these people.
http://www.plastic-surgeon.co.uk/repair-knowledge-bank/surfaces/
No connection to me, and I haven't used them, but I have read good things about similar firms. Not cheap I suspect, but might save grief?

 

[Safety First]

Thanks for all your points and questions...

Yes, ....I asked (fitter) who installed the Yale and finger pull. My thinking was that it would just not be possible to attend to that task and not notice creating the mark.

He said the whole lot came installed from factory.

To which I said that he'd then inspected (or not) prior to signing over the door and should have not expected me to be happy with it.

The door does not fit to frame all the way around either. There are drafts coming in around the lock plates- where the brush strip is flattened by the lock parts. I thought it was a design limitation until I saw the door from the outside- not meeting the rubber at the bottom. Obviously air entering down there and coming in by the lock parts.

I have spoken to the manufacturer. They were unable to get involved, pointing me to the installer (franchise). Manufacturer did say that they have photos of every door during manufacture.

Expecting a bun fight... Such a shame as it's a lovely door otherwise.

And the threshold has nothing under it- bounces/depresses underfoot about 5mm.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

If the manufacturer has photos of every stage I'd request the final photo. TBH I wasn't sure whether or not that type of door came as a manufactured and pre-hung set which is becoming more and more common these days. As for the remaining faults, I'd say that those are squarely down to the fitter

 

[diy_fun_uk]

based on what you're saying and putting the minor damage around the lock aside, it sounds to me more like installation rather than product issues, although one can't say for sure without seeing everything first hand. did the door come with a frame or was it installed in an existing frame? if the latter the gaps have more likely been caused by poor installation or an existing frame that is so wonky there were always going to be issues no matter what the installer attempted. same with the threshold, obviously hasn't been sufficiently packed.

in summary my guess would be poor installation rather than a poor product. as the old cliched saying goes 'it's all down to the fitting ...'

 

[DHFrames]

I don't know of any composite door suppliers who supply the door slab and frame separate. The frame looks new so I imagine its came in one.
The bouncing threshold, the missing sealant underneath, rubber not flush at bottom, draughts coming through, door not square to frame all sound like an installtion issue.
The flattened brush pile and mark on door is a manufacturing issue.
Mentioned many times before, no point having a first class door with poor installation.
It is all in the fitting!

 

[crank39]

On the brush pile issue, I've never fitted a composite door that didn't have the brush pile fur under the striker plate, that really is a manufacturing issue and not the fitters, as for the Yale lock well if the fitter didn't fit it to the door then its highly unlikely that he caused the scratch, as mentioned it looks like the finger pull has been adjusted without enough slack on the fixing screws, they haven't even straightened the cylinder up

As DH says the other faults are down to poor fitting, no excuse really for those but even if the fitting had been perfect you still wouldn't have paid due to the scratch thus the fitter doesn't get paid either, this reminds me of the reason I'll never fit for a company again, spend 2 days fitting a job but one scratched dgu and the customer doesn't pay means you don't get paid, right now I'm salaried and if it took me all week to fit the door then so be it, it'd be spot on when I left though, nowadays fitters are pushed to get as much done as poss just to earn an average wage, still no excuse but that's the long and short of it

 

[Safety First]

Thanks for all points. frame and door were from same manufacturer.
I did assume that brush was inevitably squashed by fitting of lock plates but then went on to see the seals not being met by door and figured that latter was the problem rather than former.
Had an utterly dire chat with regional manager of the fitting franchise. He would not have it that there's anything wrong, that the doors is not supposed to seal up unti deadlock is turned. He was assessing the installation and there on the day. Kept on telling me not to refer to light under threshold as this was promptly fixed- it still bounces-and adding that it was fine when he inspected it. To which I kept on reminding that inspection failed given other evident problems. Just weird-getting someone pretty senior being so hostile.

Spoke to Trading Standards. Seems pretty straightforward if miserable.
I do feel bad for fitter. Maybe he/they generally put in simpler doors? Cannot be fun as franchisee waiting for money while your franchise managers dig in and act up.

 

[crank39]

You probably won't tell me but it wasn't Value Doors was it?

 

[Safety First]

I ended up withholding all monies until original installer came back with a lad from other end of country who knew what he was doing. God knows how much it cost him/them?

It took lad 10 mins to diagnose that frame was not set square leading to the gap between door and front seal, and that the threshold needed packing. This they did in about 45 minutes including using colour pen to repair marks to surface- I am definitely eating my hat on that aspect, as the result is really good.

If I had paid the day before installation, such as I was asked to, I doubt I'd have gotten such leverage. They also tried to get my wife to appraise the door and pay for it even though I'd said contract was with me and I would pay once I had seen the door I.e. once home from work.

Before they agreed to send the(ir) repair man I was told catagorically by a regional manager who assisted with the installation- for some reason he was there to help-out, that there was nothing at all wrong with the door. He was frankly vile- really hostile- over the phone when I appealed to him about the gap etc. He tried to fob me off with tales of '4mm all-round' when my issue was not lateral gaps but gaps to front seals.The installer sent me a page from another manufacturers brochure again with red-herring points suggesting that door is supposed to seal only when locked up fully.

It was a total p.i. t. a. They were a bloody shambles.

I suppose it feels unfair to tar a national firm with a brush apt for one of their franchises, but my advice would be (NEVER) pay up front. I would encourage anyone to ensure you (have the skills/knowledge to) check fully fit and finish before paying. I know this is obvious stuff but the installer really tried to get the money ahead of time, even though the blurb said payment is due once you are satisfied etc.
In my experience, people are *very* good at guessing whodunnit but you could always pm me to be extra sure.

 

[crank39]