Wheel balancing problem.

[Burnerman]

I thought I knew most of the obvious things, but its clear I don't.....
Recently aquired vehicle - Suzuki Jimny 4x4 - bought for the snow which hasn't returned!
05 reg, 25k miles, brand new Maxxis tyres, alloys.
I get a steering wheel wobble which starts at 45 mph and goes at 50 mph.
Hands off the steering, the wheel bucks to and fro - not violently but certainly noticable. Before and after those speeds all is well. Braking makes no difference and the car doesn't pull to either side.
The wheels were balanced when the new tyres were fitted. I went back and asked for them to be re done. No difference.
Today I went to Hi Q, and asked them to balance all of the wheels. This they did - no difference. Returned and asked them to have another go. Just the same. There was no buckling evident on any wheel.
So what do I do now? Any suggestions? Looks like I may have to live with it, which is a pain.
Have a good evening
John

 

[JonB]

I had a similar problem many years ago (late 60s) on a Ford Prefect.
I had a full set of remoulds put on & they wobbled as soon as I came out of the Tyre Depot.
It turned out even though the tyres were the same make they were a slightly different diameter.
JonB

 

[kilovolt]

John, were the wheels balanced on or off the car? It sounds like a slight difference between the two wheels

 

[Burnerman]

Gents, I thank you both for your comments.
Tyre quality had crossed my mind, but these are new radial boots, presumably of A1 quality so I can only assume they are ok. Certainly on the balancing machine all looked well as they were spinning.
The wheels were balanced off the car, as per usual. I had thought of having them balanced on the car, but I believe that there are some things that you just can't do with 4x4 kit....I'm at the mercy of the tyre fitters expertise for that one! Certainly the vehicle can't be towed for rescue, according to the manual.
For the record, the wheel weights used were a maximum of only 15g
so they can't be far off, surely?
I could mention the problem to the independant guy who fitted the tyres but he's built like a bear, works as a doorman and isn't very handsome
John

 

[Peter.N.]

Are they the same all round John? You could try swapping them with the rears, that should prove something.

Peter

 

[Burnerman]

You know Peter, I think that will be my next move......these tyres do have a directional rotation so I think I'll move the back ones to the front and see what happens. (The new tyres were fitted as a four set).
The thing that spooks me a bit is, no matter what i've tried so far, there hasn't been any significant difference at all. This usually tells me I'm on the completely wrong track!
Clearly I'm not as clever as I thought I was
The car had new king pins (taper roller, would you believe) for the MOT and new discs too so I can't blame them really.
John

 

[Peter.N.]

In my experience and I'm sure in yours, probably 95% of vibration problems are down to tyres, not necessaraly out of balance but out of round, usually due to ply seperation, although I wouldn't expect that on new tyres. You can sometimes get a minor imperfection in both tyres which either adds or cancels depending on the relative position of each wheel - funny things tyres

Peter

 

[Belle427]

i had a similar problem years ago and it turned out to be a tyre

 

[Burnerman]

Indeed I do remember those oval shaped Dunlops of the early eighties
I think my next move is to transfer the unused Bridgestone spare to each wheel in turn and see if that makes any difference. If I can identify a possible culprit its then back to the bruiser
Thanks for the interest gentlemen, and good day to all.
John

 

[Avocet]

Had the vehicle been standing for a while before you bought it? I had some Maxxis tyres once. NEVER AGAIN! They were truly awful. They had come off a car that had been laid up and had developed flat spots. It took several weeks for them to go back to being "round" but they were so bad in the wet, I scrapped them in the end.

 

[Burnerman]

The tyres were new and I saw them being fitted - but they may have been old stock, I just don't know.
I've actually been happy with maxxis - I've two on the front of my Fabia vRS, two more on 'ers Nissan Note and 4 on the Jimny. They seem to behave quite well in the wet.
John

 

[Avocet]

It wouldn't be a problem with old stock. Tyres sometimes develop flat spots when stood with the weight of a vehicle on them without moving for a long period. It's odd that you reckon they're OK though. I'm wondering whether they're the same brand after all?! Mine were from about 4 years ago and the car just ploughed straight on whenever I came to a wet bend. If they're OK on a vRS, that makes me think that either I got the name wrong, or they've improved them immensely since then!

Anyway, getting back to the original problem, I guess if you can't feel anything wrong with the tyres themselves, it might be worth looking at suspension bushes or maybe worn track rod ends? I know I've had similar symptoms on various cars in the past. Swapping the tyres end for end would sometimes cure it for a while. Swapping the bottom suspension arms (and later, fitting polyurethane bushes) cured it completely.

 

[Burnerman]

Sure - when I get a mo its on with the spare, each wheel in turn.
When the thing was on the tyre fitters ramp I did check the prop shaft joints and bushes, but at a genuine 25k miles all was well.
John

 

[jetex]

John, you say that the vehicle has been fitted with new discs ?. If the hubs were not thoroughly cleaned before the discs were fitted, this can cause your vibration. The fault is almost certainly an imbalance in the hubs etc. You need to have the wheels balanced on the vehicle. There must be someone who can do this surely ??.

 

[birkee]

You seem to have covered everything I can think of, particularly flats on tyres from standing.

Only other thing that comes to mind, is suspension. Are both sides the same?
i.e. has a spring been replaced with the wrong one on one side. If the suspension on one side responds differently to the one on the other side, they might go into competion in their reaction rates over a particular surface.