Which boiler & water heating/storage system?

[saaz]

Hi there,

We currently have 'Ideal Classic Slimline FF 350' boiler in the kitchen and 'BoilerMate 2000' hot water storage system in upstairs bathroom which we want to replace with new as that boiler has become a bit unreliable/dangerous now and water pressure gets less when 2 showers are in use at the same time.

I assume it is a system boiler because I am not sure if we have any water tank in the attic. The maximum output of this boiler in specs is 14.7kw which I am not sure if is enough as on internet it is suggested that for a detached 4/5 bedroom house having 2/3 bathroom and 14 radiators, we should have at least 30-40kw boiler.

> Is it right that our current boiler is well under powered?
> Will buying a higher input/output boiler mean higher energy bills?
> Which boiler, storage system and possibly radiators will you recommend that are energy efficient, reliable and not too expensive to buy and get installed in Walkden, Manchester?

Thanks.

 

[ianmcd]

dont believe everything you read on Tinternet, you have one of the most reliable boilers made in the last 20 years, Boilermate is a piece of shoite, get a decent system boiler and an unvented cylinder

 

[shambolic]

Classic is bombproof. Cylinder is sh1te

 

[muggles]

Is your house cold? If not, that would suggest your current boiler is not underpowered, although the Boilermate will mask boiler undersizing slightly. A more powerful boiler would probably cost more to run, yes.

You say "not too expensive". What's your budget?

 

[saaz]

Our 'Ideal Classic Slimline FF 350' has actually become unreliable and dangerous. Since a couple of weeks ago, we have been hearing constant clicking sounds coming from it and it seemed that the ignition was setting fire but then the fire disappeared in 5-10 seconds after which it ignited again and then in few seconds went off, this process just kept repeating itself. We asked British Gas engineer to come and take a look a couple of days ago. According to him, he just cleaned/serviced the boiler after which it seemed to work fine for a day but then the situation got even worse, we had started hearing loud bangs/blasts coming from the boiler. Sometimes it was just one at a time but at other times they were 3 or 4 bangs in a row. This happened once every few hours. So we yesterday ended up turning the heating completely off to reduce the load on boiler and now the frequency and loudness of the bang have reduced a lot. This makes me believe that he may have increased the gas pressure or opened up some pipe or valve due to which it is leaking gas now, although we don't smell any gas so I don't know what may have actually gone wrong. I had told him about the issue but he as expected said that it is just that the boiler is too old and should be replaced with a new one.


The house was not cold when it was working fine till recently. I don't know what things do I exactly need and how much would they cost. A quick search on internet reveals that 'Ideal Logic Plus 30 System Boiler' and 'Ideal Logic Plus 30 HE Heat Only Boiler' are around £900 to buy but I don't know how much is the right amount to pay for fitting and if this boiler is also going to be outdated soon? I don't have a ladder and have never looked in the loft since buying this house a few years ago to verify if we have cold water tank or not, so don't know if I need system boiler or heat only boiler. Would it be a good idea to only replace the boiler and not the hot water storage for the time being?

Thanks.

 

[ianmcd]

your existing boiler is very repairable and is quite a common fault, you need a more experienced engineer , not sure if Ideal would do a fixed price repair on that @shambolic will know, I have tagged him for you and he will tell you, if they do that is your best bet, as already said a very reliable boiler , I wouldnt change it if it was me, tell us where you are and someone could possibly recommend someone that covers your area if Ideal dont do a FPR on that

 

[saaz]

Ian, that was very hopeful and it will save me a lot of money and headache if I could get the current one fixed. I live in Walkden, Greater Manchester.

 

[ianmcd]

some of the lads on here may know someone that is near you and you can PM them and ask if they could help you out, I know what your problem is but site rules correctly stop me from telling you on an open forum , I am not saying that you would attempt to sort this your self , but anyone can read it and if they did and tried to sort it themselves on their boiler it could be dangerous , your fault is annoying and sounds quite dramatic but it sounds a lot worse than it really is.

 

[MeldrewsMate]

Your Boilermate requires a small top-up tank, but this could be mounted directly above it, not necessarily in the loft. If you can't get up there, look for pipework going up from the Boilermate.
Replacement of the BM with an unvented hot water cylinder will remove the need for a loft tank.

BMs are not great, but your low flowrate symptom may indicate a partially blocked inlet filter, or maybe a scaled heat exchanger on the BM...do you still have soft water in MCR?

As for boiler sizing; if your boiler heats up all the rads, and the rads get your 4/5/6....20 bedroomed house warm, then it's powerful enough. Lucky you to have such a well insulated house! If you do change the boiler then be aware that most (if not all?) modern boilers will modulate from full power down to about 25% power, so an 18 kW or 24kW boiler would probably meet your needs, heat up the system quicker, and cost no more to run (but certainly less to run than a Classic). One caveat on that; a more powerful boiler needs a larger gas supply, so going larger may entail having to upgrade your gas pipework.

MM

 

[saaz]

I have been busy contacting several different plumbers and gas engineers during the last couple of weeks but none of them is willing to fix it, they all instead want me to get a new boiler. May be they are hesitating to touch this boiler as they are not sure how/what to fix or perhaps they are just not interested in taking small jobs.

There are a few pipes attached with boilermate and are going upwards probably in loft. I have attached the image of it with this post.

To be honest, I am more concerned about the explosions which occur for few seconds in the Ideal boiler when it comes on and less about the water pressure of Boilermate at this time.

 

[OLLIE20]

Your Boilermate requires a small top-up tank, but this could be mounted directly above it, not necessarily in the loft. If you can't get up there, look for pipework going up from the Boilermate.
Replacement of the BM with an unvented hot water cylinder will remove the need for a loft tank.

BMs are not great, but your low flowrate symptom may indicate a partially blocked inlet filter, or maybe a scaled heat exchanger on the BM...do you still have soft water in MCR?

As for boiler sizing; if your boiler heats up all the rads, and the rads get your 4/5/6....20 bedroomed house warm, then it's powerful enough. Lucky you to have such a well insulated house! If you do change the boiler then be aware that most (if not all?) modern boilers will modulate from full power down to about 25% power, so an 18 kW or 24kW boiler would probably meet your needs, heat up the system quicker, and cost no more to run (but certainly less to run than a Classic). One caveat on that; a more powerful boiler needs a larger gas supply, so going larger may entail having to upgrade your gas pipework.

MM

Soft water in Walkden mate won’t be scaled. What I tend to do with these set ups Saaz is take out boilermate and presuming pressure and flow rate is adequate which it is likely to be with a boilermate as I’m presuming you’re in a new build and there will be a 22mm main all the way up to the plate is rip out and replace for Unvented hot water and convert system to a fully pumped S Plan set up.

 

[shambolic]

your existing boiler is very repairable and is quite a common fault, you need a more experienced engineer , not sure if Ideal would do a fixed price repair on that @shambolic will know, I have tagged him for you and he will tell you, if they do that is your best bet, as already said a very reliable boiler , I wouldnt change it if it was me, tell us where you are and someone could possibly recommend someone that covers your area if Ideal dont do a FPR on that

We would do fixed price repair on boiler. But it sounds like circulation pump on primary in store is sluggish.
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MOD: Please note as this is gas related any work must be carried out by a gas safe registered professional. It is not suitable for DIY.

 

[saaz]

@shambolic, do you have a number that I can call you on?

 

[shambolic]

@shambolic, do you have a number that I can call you on?

Bank holiday Friday! You are insane right?
Call out an engineer or get BG back if they have caused an issue.

 

[saaz]

BG did send another engineer to check if their first engineer caused that issue but he didn't even know what to fix as the boiler didn't make any sounds during that short period of time he came for, so he just left without doing anything.

I have just got hold of someone who has agreed to come tomorrow and I have asked him to bring *************with him if possible. Let's see if he actually comes and if he also manages to fix the issue.