Which one Nest or Hive ?

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Hi all
I'm a newbie first post sorry if it's been answered but did a search and could not find answer to my question.

I have a gravity fed system not sure which plan. I want to install a smart thermostat don't know which is better for me either Nest or Hive , leaning towards Nest. I have a Gloworm Energy Saver 50e and a drayton SM905 timer.

I need to know how to wire the thermostats up and which is better for me . I want independent water from heating .

I have attached pics of existing system.

I hope someone can help.me with the wiring and tell me if I can install Nest if not will Hive work.

Thanks
Eggie99
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Your heating is bog standard Y plan, either will work. It has pumped heating and hot water not gravity.
 
Hi Echo
Can you supply any wiring diagrams for the Nest and Hive to see which is simpler to wire. Since I am a novice at this stuff, can do simple like for like but don't know how to go about with these Stats.

Also which wires in my Drayton SM905 control the room stat , cant seem to work it out as I need to disconnect my room stat.

Thanks
Eggie99
 
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Hi
Thanks for the reply but just need to know where the wires from pic 1 connections which the timer go into which connections in either Nest or Hive connections.

Thanks
Eggie
 
To Fit Hive

The existing programmer connections are as per your photo below:

Capture.JPG


The existing wires move from the terminals of the old programmer to the terminals at the Hive Dual Channel Version that have exactly the same function. This can be determined from the Hive diagram below.

Terminals A, B and C of the existing programmer don't serve any functional purpose other than to connect the wires in each of them together. From your photo it appears that only B has been used as an earth terminal, so they would go to the Hive earth tether.

Hive DC.JPG


You will also have to decommission the old room thermostat. It can't just be disconnected, otherwise the heating wiring will be permanently 'open circuit' and not work. So a wiring modification will be required to bridge the existing thermostat live switching wires. If you need any help with that post back details of the room thermostat and the wires connected to it.

To Fit Nest

Your existing programmer connections are as per your photo below:

Capture.JPG



The existing wires move from the terminals of the old programmer to the terminals at the Nest Heat Link that have exactly the same functions. This can be determined from the Nest diagram below. The terminology is slightly different, but the function is the same. For example: "CH ON" (existing programmer) is equivalent to "Heating call for Heat" (Nest)

Nest.JPG


In addition the two Nest common terminals (2) & (5) need connecting to Nest (L)

The Nest thermostat can either be powered from a separate plug in power supply or by wiring it to terminals T1 & T2 at the Heat Link.

You will also have to decommission the old room thermostat. It can't just be disconnected, otherwise the heating wiring will be permanently 'open circuit' and not work. So a wiring modification will be required to bridge the existing thermostat live switching wires. If you need any help with that post back details of the room thermostat and the wires connected to it.
 
Last edited:
Hi Stem
Thanks for much needed info gladly appreciated. As for the old room stat it a old Honeywell rotary style.with dial incase in the middle of housing. At moment getting a new stat installed by heating company old stat not working, so when new stat installed will let you know what wires are in there , also was thinking could I just bridge connections in stat instead of removing it , as if I remove will leave a hole in wall.and no correct colour paint to patch up. So let me know if I can bridge connections in the stat.

Thanks
Eggie
 
Yes, you can bridge the connections at the stat if you don't mind leaving it in place.
 
As far as I am aware Hive is not OpenTherm and some versions do not have volt free contacts, and as far as I am aware Hive does not connect to the TRV heads. So it seems Nest is a better system, but only if you want those extra functions now or latter.

I had all big ideas of using Nest, I fitted the electronic TRV heads first with the idea of adding Nest latter, however they work well enough without Nest so never actually fitted it.

I had also intended to connect to boiler using OpenTherm, then found it is not OpenTherm enabled, so only way to connect to bus is with boilers own wave thermostat which only works in one room.

I also found my old rotatory Honeywell Y6630D was in fact a very good thermostat with anti hysteresis software and built in fail safe. Where the Horstmann HRFS1 programming thermostat had no anti hysteresis and does not fail safe, so when batteries went flat it continued to heat the house. So don't just dismiss a thermostat because it has a dial rather than a display and buttons.

I made a mistake, in hind sight I think I should have gone for some thing like EvoHome it would not have been much more expensive, in fact it may have been cheaper, I have a lovely computer display TRV-report1.jpg I can see the temperature of 4 rooms, however I don't want to see what the temperatures are, I want some thing to read there is a target above current then run boiler, or all targets are at or above current so turn off, however it seems I don't have that option. Even with Nest all I can do is get Nest to follow a TRV or a TRV to follow Nest, and the whole idea was to have rooms at varying temperatures at varying times.
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This was my aim, however it did not happen as shown, main problem was the house holds too much heat, turning it up and down simply does not work, turn to 16°C at 10 pm and when ready to turn it up at 6 am it has still not cooled to even 18°C.

So yes the electronic heads have stopped the living room over heating when the morning sun comes through the bay windows, so were worth fitting, but as to geofencing forget it. So use a thermostat on the wall to stop the boiler cycling, but wall thermostats unless modulating are no good to control even a rooms temperature never mind the house. The TRV controls room temperature, the wall thermostat really only switches boiler off to stop cycling as the weather gets warm, so why bother with a smart thermostat.
 
Of the two, Nest is best, but I'd have a Honeywell T6R-HW

Not sure how you come to that conclusion. Nest has so many flaws, I guess it's OK for basic use but there is some really poor functionality built in.

Honeywell T6R-HW is definitely a better choice, but I guess looks less swanky. Evohome is probably the best out the lot
 
Not sure how you come to that conclusion. Nest has so many flaws, I guess it's OK for basic use but there is some really poor functionality built in.

Honeywell T6R-HW is definitely a better choice, but I guess looks less swanky. Evohome is probably the best out the lot
I for a long time thought Evo Home as the best, however have seen been told it does not work very well with OpenTherm? I have looked at Tado as well, the major problem with them all is a lack of information.

If one starts at the room and works back to boiler, in the room the fan assisted radiator must be the best, if the slight noise is not a problem, it keeps whole room at an even temperature (not sure if that is good or bad) and as long as the air can flow having a chair in front of it does not matter much, it is small and contains very little water, so fast warm up times, there was a problem with single glazing as it blows the air around so the windows lose more heat, but main point is it does not use a TRV the water flow is not altered, so no by-pass valve required. Temperature control is with the air drawn in with a number of fan speeds. In the kitchen these are very good as can be mounted inside the kick space for cupboards. However how to use the info from the iVector Myson to control the boilers modulating I do not know.

Looking at a standard radiator, still the less water it contains the better, as the less water it contains the quicker it can react to changes in demand. However they take much longer to heat a room, and are far more likely to over shoot, never the less the closer the monitoring device is to the heat source the quicker it can react, so on the supply pipe is idea as long as some compensation is included to allow for direct heat from radiator.

Now we come to the problem, how to tell the boiler what the radiators need. Simple way is the temperature of return water, does not matter which type of radiator be it because the fan is not running or the by-pass valve has lifted as the rooms are satisfied so return water temperature increases. This works well in heart of winter, but as warmer days arrive the boiler reaches a point where it can't turn down any more. At this point it starts to cycle off/on.

So we look at the wall thermostat, this may gather info from the TRV's or simply be placed in coolest room, but its job is to stop the boiler cycling, historically wise years ago it may have been main control, but today with modulating boilers its role has changed. There are exceptions, oil boilers do not modulate very well, and open plan houses can work from a single centrally placed thermostat, but in the main the wall thermostat is only there to turn off boiler in the summer.

So big question, do you really need an automated system to turn off heating in the summer? or will manual operation be better?

So looking at controls, we have thermostatic radiator valve heads or fan speed, controlling every room, so where does a wall thermostat fit into that on a day to day basis? It can only work either if very simple i.e. off/on with no anti hysteresis software or predictive software, or it connects with the radiator thermostat in some way.

Hive does not connect to TRV heads so is only suitable really for hot air systems as used in USA, Nest has limited connection, and EvoHome and Tado do it better. As to if worth the expense that's another question.

I personally would love an answer, I have every intention of installing a kick space fan assisted radiator to kitchen, however too expensive for other rooms, using a heat store with oil central heating would help, but as to if worth the expense not so sure. The debate can go on for years, however only you can decide how far to go.
 
The benefit of smart heating systems (not just thermostats) is than they can keep the temperature required in the room taking into account its heating profile (how long it takes to heat up, how long to cool, overlying it onto outside weather). Of course for that they need some central unit, smart TRVs and, preferably, thermostats in every room/zone.

Recently I installed Drayton Wiser, probably the closest competitor of Evohome (which Tado with its subscription model and internet only operation is not). I'm quite amazed so far how good it is at keeping the desired temperature with a simple on/off switch to the boiler ( mine doesn't support opentherm). From what I can see it predicts the temperature going down and fires up the boiler for a bit even if temperature is still at a set level( per room of course).
 

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