Which point of a powered bathroom cabinet do you measure for wetroom zoning?

[SJRSJR]

Hello

I'm looking at getting a bathroom cabinet with a demister and internal shaving socket that's rated IP44. I know it's all notifiable but I don't want to waste money on a powered one if I can't use it.

It would be in a 1.8m square wetroom, no screen, no shower tray, just tiles. I think in those circumstances, that Zone 0 and Zone 1 both extend as a 1.2m radius from the source - presumably the shower head - with Zone 0 up to 10cm from the ground, and Zone 1 between 10 and 225cm.

The cabinet is 50cm wide and would be on the same wall as the shower head, its right hand edge being approximately 1m away from the shower head. I've read that IP44 can be used in Zone 1 (although IP65 is recommended). If so, then I think it's okay, but out of interest, if it wasn't, would the entire cabinet have to be outside the zone, just the cable inlet point, or something else.

Thanks

 

[trojanhawrs]

If the mirror has a demister/lighting it should be considered an appliance in its own right and have an applicable IP rating for the electrics.

 

[JohnW2]

Hello

.... but out of interest, if it wasn't, would the entire cabinet have to be outside the zone, just the cable inlet point, or something else.

I think it's fair to say that the 'zoning' rules only apply to electrical items (switches, sockets, equipment etc.) - so I don't think that a structure which happened to house/contain them would be of any relevance. However, others may disagree!

 

[Murdochcat]

Do you have a supply in place

 

[SJRSJR]

Thanks all.

If the mirror has a demister/lighting it should be considered an appliance in its own right and have an applicable IP rating for the electrics.

So if rated IP44 doesn’t that apply to all elements?

I think it's fair to say that the 'zoning' rules only apply to electrical items (switches, sockets, equipment etc.) - so I don't think that a structure which happened to house/contain them would be of any relevance. However, others may disagree!

Hadn’t looked at it like that but I can see the sense of it.

Do you have a supply in place

No, so I understand that makes it notifiable.
That’s fine. I just don’t want to buy it only for the electrician to say he can’t fit it.

 

[JohnW2]

Hadn’t looked at it like that but I can see the sense of it.

If you consider a silly extreme case of some sort of 'cabinet' 2 meters square on a wall, with something electrical' at the end remote from a bath/show, it would surely be daft to regard the electrical bits as being in Zone 2, even if one end of the cabinet were very close to the bath/shower?

No, so I understand that makes it notifiable.

It it is within a 'Zone', then it would be notifiable. Were it not within a zone, it would only be notifiable if it were a 'new circuit' (rather thn an 'extension' of an existing one).

 

[SJRSJR]

Were it not within a zone, it would only be notifiable if it were a 'new circuit' (rather thn an 'extension' of an existing one).

Thanks. So just so I'm understand correctly, extensions of existing circuits are not notifiable, but new circuits are i.e. ones that have a new connection to the CU. But because it's in a Zone, the Zone rules apply.

Looking at this, Competent Person Scheme am I reading it right ? That if an addition to a circuit is beyond 1.2m radius, then it isn't notifiable? So if the shaving socket inside the cabinet is on the right hand side of the cabinet, it would be notifiable because it's within 1.2m of the shower head, but if it was on the left hand side, it would be beyond 1.2m and therefore not notifiable?! Or do you also look at the light/demister positions?

 

[trojanhawrs]

Your entire bathroom is in zone. 1.2m of zone 1 + 600mm of zone 2

 

[EFLImpudence]

Your entire bathroom is in zone.

No it isn't.
Anyway it's not a bathroom.

1.2m of zone 1 + 600mm of zone 2

There is no zone 2 in a wet room with a shower head.

From the regulations:

 

[ericmark]

I read that when doing mother's wet room, the problem was the shower head was not fixed. Asked building inspector, and he said 1.2 meters from where the head could be held. So with a 1-meter-long hose, that 2.2 meters. So in your case, the whole of wet room is zone 1.

And looking at my mother's wet room, far bigger than yours, but the shower rose could be used to wash down the whole room including the ceiling, if one was careless one could also wet a good section of the hall, so it was down to use of some care, and a risk assessment, and if my mother was in danger of falling, one would hope the carer would drop any shower head and look after mother, so the head would likely snake around everywhere.

As to demist mirror, not required in a wet room, just aim the shower head at it, and all mist gone. As to shaver socket, if using an electric shaver, you don't need to stand by a sink, and if using a wet shaver, don't need electric, simple.

 

[JohnW2]

Thanks. So just so I'm understand correctly, extensions of existing circuits are not notifiable, but new circuits are i.e. ones that have a new connection to the CU.

Exactly.

But because it's in a Zone, the Zone rules apply.

Yep, the 'zone rules trump the above, even if it's not a 'new circuit'.

 

[SJRSJR]

I read that when doing mother's wet room, the problem was the shower head was not fixed. Asked building inspector, and he said 1.2 meters from where the head could be held. So with a 1-meter-long hose, that 2.2 meters. So in your case, the whole of wet room is zone 1.

Yes, that does make sense. A bog standard cabinet, no bells or whistles seems like the easy way out...

Thanks for everyone's replies. It's probably straightforward if you're doing it every day but it seems to be a bit of a minefield!

 

[ericmark]

It's probably straightforward if you're doing it every day but it seems to be a bit of a minefield!

It was a minefield, my sister insisted it would not be done as DIY as we never finished a job, fair comment, but the bathroom fitters ran off halfway through the job, so forced to do it DIY. Hurdle one was LABC, we had assumed builder had submitted the paperwork on our behalf, but no, seems they were doing it on the sly, and you can't un-tell LABC, so we now have to jump through their hoops.

We had no idea that turning a toilet into a wet room needed planning permission, but it seems bathrooms and kitchens can't be moved room to room without planning permission. We read the Parts of building regulations, and it said if opening window no fan required, but seems the LABC can veto that, and we had to fit a fan.

And to convince them we can do the electrics, we had to have all the test gear on display, with the calibration certificates, and our collage/university qualifications before he would allow us to DIY the electrics.

In the end, the completion certificate was issued, but 5 years latter when we came to sell the house, we could not to start with find it. Asking the council for a replacement, told it would take 4 months, in other words go away we don't want to know. Here in Powis Wales I can find it registered on council website, but Flintshire also Wales, can't find jobs I know were registered, so why did we bother?

However, the councils are catching up, so today not to get planning permission or register work is asking for problems. And after the inspector tool us what we must do, he never visited once complete.