What a lot of stuff to reply to all at once. Deep breath.....
paulfromswindon said:
It seems to be becoming good practice to install a single pole MCB after the meter to isolate the supply. This prevents you having to pull the main fuse, and protects the electricity suppliers main fuse from blowing (the single MCB should blow first.
Wouldn't double pole be better practice?
paulfromswindon said:
It may be worth a quick call to SE to ask them. Check with SE themselves first about adding a switch, they may refer you to the contracting arm (SEC) who will definitely charge you. I've no doubt they would fit one (probably for a fee). In truth, this is only only thing I would recommend, as it removes any legal issues and allows you to isolate the system for yourself in future. If you are paying to get it done anyway, it may be worth getting an RCD installed to cover the whole installation instead of a switch - it would kill two birds with one stone - give youa means to isolate and add some additional protection.
This raises an intereating Q - who does one ask? Given that these days you can buy your electricity from any number of electricity companies, or gas companies, or Richard Branson, or, FAIK, the newsagent round the corner, who's job would it be to come and do it? And do we, as consumers, finally have some leverage? - e.g. "I'll switch to you as a supplier if you come and fit an isolation switch and a whole-system RCD for free" It's a thought...
paulfromswindon said:
Err - does that one open up a big enough contact gap to qualify as an isolation switch?
breezer said:
xbond, i think you are wasting your time in hoping for the regs to be changed, but you forgot one thing you knew what to do and what not to do, some people in this country can not fit a plug top and get it right, i guess its just a case of the electric supply company being cautious
I'm not sure they are being too cautious - look through this forum and you'll find people who don't understand how to wire up a 2-way lights witch, or who buy a new light fitting to replace an old dangly one, remove the ceiling rose, and have no idea what to do with the bunch of wires they find there. (A situation not helped by the cheapskate light manufacturer only providing a 2- or 3-way chocblock connecter on his product. As an aside, are European lighting circuits different from ours? Are there places where 3 wires is all you'll ever find in the ceiling?)
paulfromswindon said:
The UK has the best regulations in the world in my view, much safer than most of Europe.
Could have been even better - why they didn't re-engineer the old 15A roundpin plug to take a fuse instead of introducing the mechanically far inferior 13A squarepin beats me. Actually, I can probably guess that if they didn't then people would have kept on using the old ones, but when you look at the quality of the contacts on those round pins it's a shame.
paulfromswindon said:
I have to agree with Breezer once more. I sincerely hope and trust you guys are competent at what you are doing, but people do some incredibly dangerous things. I have honestly seen many, many DIY jobs where they were incredibly lucky not to have burned thier houses down, or electrocuted themselves. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing sometimes.
And a bit more knowledge is a bit more dangerous - until it gets to the point where people's wiring skills have taken them all the way to their meter tails, and they think "how hard can that next step be?....
OTOH, if my DIY interest hadn't led me to this site, or one like it, I might never have realised how ******* useless my old 100mA ELCB is...
Scoby_Beasley said:
Am I too old for an apprenticeship in my 40's ??
No, but you're too old to go out clubbing with your fellow apprentices
.
masona said:
I've heard many times electrican saying "oh yeah I had 240v go thru' me blah blah".
I've had it go through me too
- up one arm, across my chest and down the other arm to (a possibly not very good) earth (overhead supply, bone dry chalk subsoil on a hill). And no, it was nothing to do with any DIY wiring exploits, just a moments carelessness with an amplifier I was building. Fatal or injurious it was not, but it was bloody unpleasant, and a salutory lesson at an early age of the importance of "check and check again, and then use a test device to verify".
paulfromswindon said:
There may come a time (if not already on new sites) when the suppliers install Isolators, but I don't believe that they will ever fit RCDs. The suppliers provide you a safe, high-capacity supply, it is for individuals to provide the protection for the installation. If the suppliers start fitting RCDs, which people would regard as installation protection, how many people will start suing the suppliers if the RCDs fail to trip if something happens because the customers own installation is not correct?
Yo - I
think that's why the mandating of GFCIs in the USA has been so incredibly slow - the manufacturers were terrified of lawsuits if something went wrong.
Gees said:
Just a note.. European plugs for domestic appliances lamps etc. Dont have ANY protection in the plug at all. At least not the ones I have seen.
No, they don't. In fact, do any other countries have fuses in their plugs like we do?
breezer said:
should i keep quiet about the Americans then?
ok, i wont
they are "just as bad" they also have plugs with no fuses, yes ok so they have 110 v but to get the things to run at 110v you have to double the current (that is to say that if you compared the same appliance from here to there, theirs would draw nearly twice as much)
also each socket is has its own fuse (or its supposed to) give me a good old ring main any day
And mechanically their plugs and sockets are the worst I've ever seen. And domestic supplies aren't simply 110-120v, they are what you'd call, I guess, 2-phase, i.e. 110/120 - 0 - 110/120, and it is possible to wire up a circuit with a 2-pole breaker to give you 220-240v at the socket. You are supposed to use a different type of socket so that you can't plug a 110v appliance in, but I wonder if people always do?
paulfromswindon said:
Quite right Sir! I think the americans just wire stuff using wet string!!!
Wet string? Dunno about that, but there was a time when they thought it was OK to use aluminium wiring in houses.
Surprisingly enough there were bonding and fatigue problems that led to an awful lot of house fires.
notpaye said:
The office of the deputy prime minister (who is responsible for the building regulations) is now drawing up Part P (do a google search) which will bring electrical installation into the building regs, only approved (not just certified) electricians (i.e. members of NICEIC) will be able to perform electrical work without getting the building inspectors approval, this will be a bit like CORGI is to gas. I've heard this will be implemented next april along with the wire colour changes.
I wonder what "perform electrical work" means?
Will I be able to replace an existing socket or a switch?
Install a new socket on an existing ring?
Install new lights?
Fit my own electric oven?
Lay in new circuits from my existing CU?
Install a supply to an outbuilding?
Replace my CU?
Will we be able to even buy cable, CUs etc any more?
Have we finally descended to the level of the Americans?
And are these regulations the result of a terrible record of electrocutions and fires, or because of lobbying by NICIEC in order to boost the income of their members?
[rant] 10 people a day are killed on the roads in this country - seems to me that that would be a far more productive area to go in search of better training and stronger regulations than clamping down on DIY in the home
[/rant]
I'd better go and look at this Part P and maybe lay in some supplies.....
Blimey - that was hard work!
