Wiring help wanted

[jaydee999]

I have two living room lights that are supposed to work off separate switches, and independently of each other. There is a two-gang switch plate for this purpose. However, one light only has one wire going to it. The other light has three wires. The switch has two wires feeding into it, but one live has been cut short. There is a short live "loop" between the two common connections. Both neutrals have red sheaths on them. The trouble is that I can't get them to work independently. I can only have both on or off, and only if one switch is left permanently on.
Can anyone advise how to wire this up properly using the existing wiring? It did work properly before the switch was taken off for decorating.
Thanks.
Will post pics when I've created a folder.

 

[bernardgreen]

Both neutrals have red sheaths on them.

These are not Neutrals, they are Switched Lives that take Live from the switch to the lamp when the switch is ON.

More advice when the pictures are available ( use the upload a file function rather than linking to a different website for the image )

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Jaydee - basically you have to choose between Plan A and Plan B.

PLAN A:

• Learn how lighting circuits are wired.
  • //www.diynot.com/wiki/Electrics:Lighting
  • http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=uk+lighting+wiring+(basics+OR+101)
  • //www.diynot.com/wiki/Electrics:books
  • //www.diynot.com/wiki/Electrics:index
• Get a multimeter and learn how to use it.
• Identify which conductors are which at the switches and the light positions.
• Check for circuit continuity, switches working etc.
• Connect everything up properly.

PLAN B:

• Get an electrician.

There are some irresponsible people here who will tell you that there is a Plan C, which is to start trying different things without really knowing what's going on, hoping to get it working by luck, or by blindly following instructions to put-this-wire-in-that-hole without any idea as to why. Please don't listen to them - you must know what, and truly understand what, you are doing.

Electrical-installation-by-guesswork is a foolish idea.

There is no Plan C for anybody sensible.

 

[jaydee999]

Sorry for my inexactness. I realise the "neutrals" in question are switched lives, hence the sheaths. I also know how a switch works when it connects directly to the light that it controls. I have also done some googling to try and find this setup, but was unable to. I will see if your links provide a direct answer.
Thanks.

 

[mwatsonxx]

There are some irresponsible people here who will tell you that there is a Plan C, which is to start trying different things without really knowing what's going on, hoping to get it working by luck, or by blindly following instructions to put-this-wire-in-that-hole without any idea as to why. Please don't listen to them.

You are a disgusting lying disgrace

 

[winston1]

It did work properly before the switch was taken off for decorating.

Have you lost the photo or diagram of the wiring you made before you removed the switch for decorating?

 

[jaydee999]

Sorry for my further inexactness. The problem has been there for years since the decoration was last done by someone else. I'm trying to resolve it now that I'm redecorating. I haven't touched the wiring. It was last working properly when we moved in over 20 years ago, but not since the previous decoration about 10 years ago.
I've found a switched live with a cut off live wire in the same cable in the mess of cables in the ceiling, so I'm thinking that's the same wire that's has the cut-off live wire in the switch. So the live it is connected to is presumably the feed to the lamp with the one wire.

 

[winston1]

At a guess you have one cable containing a live and a switched live, plus earth I hope and a second cable containing a spare cut off wire and a switched live, plus earth.

So connect the live to both switch commons with the small loop. The two switch lives go to L2 on each of the switches.

The cut off red is not required.

 

[jaydee999]

Hi winston1
Yes, that is exactly what I have, plus a fly earth to the front plate. I've wired it up as you say, but it's still not working. One switch works fine, although it needs to be in the "off" position to be on. The other one only works if the first switch is on, and then it works OK, albeit "upside down" as well. But if I then switch the first switch off, it switches both lights off. I think this is how it's been for,the last 10 years...

 

[winston1]

The upsidedownness can be corrected by moving the switched lives from L2 to L1.

Post a pic, maybe we can see the other problem.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

You are a disgusting lying disgrace

Watson - you must now either prove that when I wrote

There are some irresponsible people here who will tell you that there is a Plan C, which is to start trying different things without really knowing what's going on, hoping to get it working by luck, or by blindly following instructions to put-this-wire-in-that-hole without any idea as to why. Please don't listen to them.​

I knew it to be false, or you must withdraw your accusation of lying, and apologise.

 

[jaydee999]

There were pics. I don't know what happened to them. Will post again.

 

[jaydee999]

 

[jaydee999]

So the switch is as you surmised, except I've swapped the switched lives to L1

 

[jaydee999]