Wooden Kitchen Worktops

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Hi Guys,
I am about to replace the wood surround on the sink and worktops in the kitchen. The wood is a dark oak worktop from Wicks. Wicks recommend that you use a Stavnas brown wood oil and I have no doubt that to frequently oil the worktops will be good for the wood.

What concerns me are those sections of the wood beside and underneath the sink where the wood will have to contend with water spillage. I think that over time there will be unavoidable water damage unless I do something??

Option 1) I could treat the wood with several coated of the Stavnas wood oil before its fitted,or
Other Options -Might I be better trying a long term wood preservative before the wood is fitted?
Any help appreciated. Jazz
 
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How about option 3? Treat the underside and back/hidden edges with a polyurethan waterprooferr or wood hardener rather than a preservative and oil the rest

Scrit
 
Scrit said:
How about option 3? Treat the underside and back/hidden edges with a polyurethan waterprooferr or wood hardener rather than a preservative and oil the rest

Hi Scrit,Thats exactly what I'll do.
Many thanks Jazz
 
Just a point, but is your sink a Belfast or Butler type? If so you should also rout a drip (or capillary) groove on the underside of the worktop where it overhangs the sink and seal the joint well with silicone. The drip groove actually stops water hanging beneath the edge -0 it works exactly like the drip groove beneath a window frame sill

Scrit
 
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Hi Scrit,

Just a point, but is your sink a Belfast or Butler type?

The sink that is fitted is a Windsor Premium Double(Small second sink) from Wicks.
Could you expain what exactly a Belfast or Butler type is?
Jazz
 
A Belfast sink looks like this:

traditional_header.jpg


The worktop overhangs on 3 sides and eeds a drip groove to be routed on the underside to ensure that drips don't "hang" beneath the worktop and start to rot it. Exactly the same principle as the drip groove on a wooden window sill.

Scrit
 
Scrit said:
A Belfast sink looks like this:

traditional_header.jpg


The worktop overhangs on 3 sides and eeds a drip groove to be routed on the underside to ensure that drips don't "hang" beneath the worktop and start to rot it. Exactly the same principle as the drip groove on a wooden window sill.

Scrit

I have a sink pretty much like yours, but salvaged, in our kitchen, with a beech worktop surround from Ikea - same blueprint as yours. It was fitted and treated with boiled linseed oil 4 years ago by a carpenter who has since moved away, and I immediately started religiously treating it with boiled linseed oil every other day. Unfortunately very shortly afterwards my mother fell ill and I had to nurse her when she came out of hospital, so the treatment was suspended until I got back a month later. Within a year the area round the tap was badly stained, as was the back where it meets the splashback, and the draining board side where the drying rack stands was also developing black mould in places. The other side, the plain work surface, is OK. I have rubbed, sanded, re-oiled, all to no avail. Lately I've been trying to get people (husband, children, friends) to use it as little as possible in the hope that it can be kept dry and I've rubbed it down lightly with scourers. I have also used bleach to remove the black. The next step is to try somehow to reseal it, and I'm tempted to use yacht varnish, as the oil will obviously take months, and doesn't seem to soak in where it's stained. But varnish presumably won't 'take' where it's already been oiled. Short of taking it off and starting again, which isn't really a goer, what are my options? Katya
 
katya said:
.......Within a year the area round the tap was badly stained, as was the back where it meets the splashback, and the draining board side where the drying rack stands was also developing black mould in places......
Well black mould means that you have a damp problem. Is your kitchen cold? Does your hob extractor vent to the outside or is it a recirculator? How well is your kitchen ventilated? Do you vent out the kitchen after steaming or frying food by opening a window? Is there a condenser dryer in there which isn't working as well as it should? You need to ascertain if there is a possibility of your kitchen retaining moisture in the air which then condenses on cold surfaces overnight - a common cause of black mould in centrally-heated houses fitted with double glazing but where ventilation is inadequate (i.e. lots of them these days). Another query - are there any obvious damp or cold patches on the walls indicating a bridged cavity or rising damp? Also are the walls heavily tiled? If you don't have an extractor it might be that you need one.

katya said:
The other side, the plain work surface, is OK. I have rubbed, sanded, re-oiled, all to no avail. Lately I've been trying to get people (husband, children, friends) to use it as little as possible in the hope that it can be kept dry and I've rubbed it down lightly with scourers. I have also used bleach to remove the black.
Well it's true that you will need to dry out the work surfaces, but I reckon you may need to dry out the kitchen firstl because black mould will form on top of any surface if moist air is trapped in the kitchen after cooking, washing, etc.

katya said:
The next step is to try somehow to reseal it, and I'm tempted to use yacht varnish, as the oil will obviously take months, and doesn't seem to soak in where it's stained.
Don't! True yacht spar varnish is specifically formulated to remain soft forever - it never fully sets. In fact if you think about it for a yacht mast that's ideal as it means it always remains plastic and resists crazing (cracking), something varnishes are notorious for. Not an ideal material for kitchen worktops, however

katya said:
Short of taking it off and starting again, which isn't really a goer, what are my options? Katya
I think that's the only goer to be honest. I'd suggest finding out whether or not your kitchen is damp and sorting that out first before even tackling the worktop. Then get the worktop dry - if needs be avoid using it for a week and don't steam or fry in that time.

Thereafter you can tackle the top, but there is no way you'll successfully refinish the top unless you strip back the old coating. The tap needs to be removed for this process and the timber sanded back with something like a belt sander in the direction of the grain - P120 grit should do - and hand sand with a sanding block with the direction of the grain to finish into the corners and where the joints, etc are. The way to tackle the mould staining is bleach, although I'd suggest getting some oxalic acid crystals (try a chemist or apiary suppliers - as beekeepers use it as well) and diluting that to get rid of the mould. Once the stains have been treated, sand again, this time to P150/P180 grit, wipe off with a clean cotton rag wetted with thinners/white spirits (to lift any remaining dust) and then seal the top with a clear acrylic or polyurethane floor lacquer, minimum 3 coats. Try to do the undersides and exposed edges as well - the more cfoats you get on the edges the better. Refinishing this way will not work unless you get rid of the old coating and kill the fungus. It' not all that easy, but anything worth doing well rarely is

Scrit
 
Scrit said:
katya said:
.......Within a year the area round the tap was badly stained, as was the back where it meets the splashback, and the draining board side where the drying rack stands was also developing black mould in places......
Well black mould means that you have a damp problem. Is your kitchen cold? Does your hob extractor vent to the outside or is it a recirculator? How well is your kitchen ventilated? Do you vent out the kitchen after steaming or frying food by opening a window? Is there a condenser dryer in there which isn't working as well as it should? You need to ascertain if there is a possibility of your kitchen retaining moisture in the air which then condenses on cold surfaces overnight - a common cause of black mould in centrally-heated houses fitted with double glazing but where ventilation is inadequate (i.e. lots of them these days). Another query - are there any obvious damp or cold patches on the walls indicating a bridged cavity or rising damp? Also are the walls heavily tiled? If you don't have an extractor it might be that you need one.

Well, the house is very old - 1830s, and the kitchen is in the basement, and yes, it is cold. There is a fireplace we don't use any more, though we used to, and the chimney breast is showing signs of damp. Apart from that and the cooker - a range with an extractor hood - there isn't any heating, though the rest of the house is centrally heated. The extractor fan in the hood ls a recirculator, but we only use it if we're flashfrying. There is a round ventilator inset into one of the window panes, but the window is quite a long way from the cooker and sink. The kitchen is 4x5 sq.ms. The whole basement is dry-lined following severe flooding about 30 years ago after which a sea wall was built, and our garden runs right up to it. At high tide the basement is beow sea level. the whole basement including the kitchen is tiled, and the wall behind the sink and cooker has a tiled splashback with handmade tiles, which are a lot thicker than standard wall tiles. The tumble dryer isn't in the kitchen.

katya said:
The other side, the plain work surface, is OK. I have rubbed, sanded, re-oiled, all to no avail. Lately I've been trying to get people (husband, children, friends) to use it as little as possible in the hope that it can be kept dry and I've rubbed it down lightly with scourers. I have also used bleach to remove the black.
Well it's true that you will need to dry out the work surfaces, but I reckon you may need to dry out the kitchen firstl because black mould will form on top of any surface if moist air is trapped in the kitchen after cooking, washing, etc.

katya said:
The next step is to try somehow to reseal it, and I'm tempted to use yacht varnish, as the oil will obviously take months, and doesn't seem to soak in where it's stained.
Don't! True yacht spar varnish is specifically formulated to remain soft forever - it never fully sets. In fact if you think about it for a yacht mast that's ideal as it means it always remains plastic and resists crazing (cracking), something varnishes are notorious for. Not an ideal material for kitchen worktops, however

I think I was using the term yacht varnish generically. What I have in my cellar is Ronseal floor varnish.

katya said:
Short of taking it off and starting again, which isn't really a goer, what are my options? Katya
I think that's the only goer to be honest. I'd suggest finding out whether or not your kitchen is damp and sorting that out first before even tackling the worktop. Then get the worktop dry - if needs be avoid using it for a week and don't steam or fry in that time.

I meant removing the whole wooden worktop, rather than the sealant. I understood that linseed oil and alternatives like duck oil penetrate the wood so that in fact they can't be removed, but the edges of the patches I've rubbed back under the drying rack look as they would if the surface had been varnished, not oiled.

Thereafter you can tackle the top, but there is no way you'll successfully refinish the top unless you strip back the old coating. The tap needs to be removed for this process and the timber sanded back with something like a belt sander in the direction of the grain - P120 grit should do - and hand sand with a sanding block with the direction of the grain to finish into the corners and where the joints, etc are. The way to tackle the mould staining is bleach, although I'd suggest getting some oxalic acid crystals (try a chemist or apiary suppliers - as beekeepers use it as well) and diluting that to get rid of the mould. Once the stains have been treated, sand again, this time to P150/P180 grit, wipe off with a clean cotton rag wetted with thinners/white spirits (to lift any remaining dust) and then seal the top with a clear acrylic or polyurethane floor lacquer, minimum 3 coats. Try to do the undersides and exposed edges as well - the more cfoats you get on the edges the better. Refinishing this way will not work unless you get rid of the old coating and kill the fungus. It' not all that easy, but anything worth doing well rarely is

Well, as I said above, I didn't think oil was a coating, but that it saturated the wood and thus waterproofed it. What you're saying is that I can sand the whole thing back, kill the mould with bleach, and varnish. So we forget about oil altogether? I should have mentioned also that the draining board has grooves - tricky for sanding down. We can probably resolve the damp issue by lighting the fire systematically.I can't think of any other cure. what do you think?
Scrit
 
PS. Surely the mould is caused by the water spillage, e.g. from the tap and drying rack, more than from humidity/cold. wouldn't spillage have done this anyway, even if the kitchen were warm and dry?
 
katya said:
Surely the mould is caused by the water spillage, e.g. from the tap and drying rack, more than from humidity/cold. Wouldn't spillage have done this anyway, even if the kitchen were warm and dry?

OK, I've put in enough solid wood worktops to think I know that if it is properly sealed to start with (3 to 4 coats of oil) then they only need to be oiled once or twice a year thereafter providing leaks and spillages are mopped up promptly. I've rarely seen worktops go mouldy, even up here in the Pennines where I now live (and it's ruddy wet and cold up here, too) but where I have in every case the cause was condensation due to poor air circulation in conjunction or lack of through ventilation. I've never seen it in a warmish, well-ventilated kitchen - low humidity and higher temperatures effectively kill-off mildew and black fungus.

When I was a kid we lived in a house with bare wooden drainers. They were never oiled, only ever scrubbed , and I can't recall ever seeing them going mouldy because the kitchen was always aired out during/after cooking and wet stuff was never allowed to sit on them for long. And that was in the west of Scotland, hardly noted for it's dry sunny climate.

The fact that you have recurrent black mould indicates the presence of moisture, probably being condensed out of the air, in combination with a lack of ventilation. This is a basement room and the chimney has been blocked off, so the original method of ventilation of this room, where the draw of the fire in the grate ensured a constant flow of air through the gaps in the sash windows and then up the chimney, is gone. The cooker extractor is a recirculator - they leave moisture in the air and just filter out fatty droplets - and the room has been tanked - so the walls can no longer "breathe" and on top of that the room is tiled, which will tend to cool the room and speed-up condensation of moisture out of the air. Add to that the fact that you are in a seaside location, a location where the natural moisture content of the air will be higher than inland and that completes a damp air picture. The more you say, the more I feel that you have a more general ventilation problem in the kitchen. Have you seen any mould forming on any of the units (particularly on the undersides of the upper cabinets) or tiling at all? One thing you might like to try would be to put a dehumidifier in the kitchen and leave it on constantly. I'd almost put money on it that the DH unit would pull a lot of moisture out of the air and that alone might be enough to stem the black mould if the DH is sited in the still artea near the inside wall of the kitchen. If that were the case you could then look at a more lasting improvement in general ventilation (such as adding a vent to the chimney breast) to ensure that an effective, non power solution was found.

As to oil, oil is normally an appropriate finish for worktops - yes, it is always slightly permeable which is why we tend to lay down 3 or 4 coats of it and then "top-up" a couple of times a year, but it has the major advantage of being easily repaired by the householder which is something that lacquer finishes are not. The impression I have gained is that you don't want to persist with oil finishes, so I was merely proferring an alternative, although personally if I were doing the job I'd be re-oiling with either Danish oil or stand oil/boiled linseed oil. If your drainers are grooved then the grooves will need to be hand sanded if you wish to refinish the top. Finishing is a task which requires effort to get good results. Slap an alternative coating medium, over what you've got and it will probably look patchy and start to lift in time. There are no short cuts to a quality end result.

Scrit
 
I'd actually prefer to carry on with the boiled linseed oil, but it just doesn't seem to 'take' on areas that have been consistently wet/stained/bleached. However, perhaps the wood was resisting the oil because it was still damp. The bleach has been quite effective in deaing with the mould, by the way, and people are at last being very careful and respecting my determination to dry it out. The fact is, I've been away a lot recently, and during my absence there was a problem, now resolved, with the dishwasher, which meant that people were putting dripping pots and pans on the drainer and certainly not wiping up, so when I came back I was horrified by the state of the draining board. All the grooves were black, for a start, so I got to work with the bleach. But I also drew the conclusion that the oil didn't work, and there are quite a few forums out there where people make similar complaints. So I thought varnish was the only alternative.

With regard to the fire, when we had the kitchen and sink done we actually opened it up, exposing the old chimneybreast, and used it for a while, but with a lighted fire and the oven on at the same time, even in winter the result was often the opposite problem, a kitchen that was far too hot. In addition, we managed to crack the back of the fire so in principle we can't use it again until it's been fixed. However, the hearth isn't closed, and according to our chimney sweep the draft is very good. But the fire we put in is Victorian and has one of those lid things that shut it off, and I do tend to keep it closed to stop soot and debris coming down. If I kept it open, would it make a difference? It seems to me from what you say that we have the ventilation we need, we're just not making use of it. I think the single best solution would be to start lighting the fire again, which would both ventilate the room and dry out the humidity.

Finally, when I bought into the oiled wood idea, I was told it would have to be done over and over, every other day for at least a couple of months, rather than, as you say, 3 or 4 coats, which it definitely had to start with, and then just a couple of times a year. And I did oil it pretty persistently, apart from during periods of absence. So I find what you say quite encouraging and would be more than happy to go back to applying boiled linseed oil, which I've got, or Danish oil, which some people say is better. But do I really have to sand down the entire surface, even the 'good' bit, and not just the draining area and behind and around the tap?
 
Mind if I butt in?
I think I may know what Katya is referring to with regards the 'black mould'. I have a solid beechblock worktop, and around the tap area there are a few small, isolated patches of black within the wood. I posted on here about this ages ago, and the general consensus was that it was CORROSION caused by the sink being badly fitted, allowing water to penetrate the wood through the untreated raw ends underneath. Some kind soul on here recommended that I use a product which kills/ bleaches the corrosion out of the wood, but I can't remember what it was called, and I can't find the original thread: some kind of crystals, or acid-based thing, if I remember correctly. If anyone knows what the product was, please post the name here, as I'm just about to get the worktop seen to, and would like to deal with it myself. I hope this also helps Katya.
Good luck and thanks in advance for any further help.
Nick.
 
Nick the Big said:
Some kind soul on here recommended that I use a product which kills/ bleaches the corrosion out of the wood, but I can't remember what it was called, and I can't find the original thread: some kind of crystals, or acid-based thing
Oxalic acid crystals, which will both kill mould and bleach out certain chemical stains without affecting the wood too badly....... (see my earlier post above ;) )

Problem is that Katya says this:

katya said:
.......Within a year the area round the tap was badly stained, as was the back where it meets the splashback, and the draining board side where the drying rack stands was also developing black mould in places......

So a bit further afield than just the metal taps and I gathered the impression that this was a ceramic Belfast sink, possibly because the worktops have drainer grooves cut in them indicating an undermount-type sink, although Belfast is just a guess :rolleyes:

Scrit
 

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