Worcester Bosch Greenstar Highflow 440CDi boiler

[AnotherAnn]

I am new to posting on this site although I have been reading helpful posts for some time. I am a female OAP reasonably intelligent but please be gentle with me

I have had a Worcester Bosch Greenstar Highflow 440CDi boiler fitted through the Warmfront scheme in July 2010

One of the problems I have is I try to fill my bath which is slightly longer than the norm and after turning the hot tap on the water goes through the usual cycle of cold, warm, scalding, cold, hot and then to luke warm.
The longer the tap is on the water stays at luke warm.
If you get in the bath and then turn the tap on it will go through its usual cycle of cold, warm, scalding, cold etc so the bath water finishes colder than before.

I can't believe this is normal and the hot water dial on the boiler is one away from maximum.

I have read 'lobsters15' question on 28/10/2009 and a reply from 'bengasman' saying these boilers would yield hot water in a bath that would hospitalise you if you sat in them.

Can anyone offer any advice because the guys who installed the boiler are just ignoring me and I am desparate to have a bath

 

[Agile]

Are you suggesting that female OAPs are not usually reasonably intelligent?

It sounds to me as if the plate heat exchanger is blocked and that would be because they did not power flush the system when it was installed.

Of course I have not examined your boiler to diagnose the fault but its nearly always that with those symptoms.

You should learn to have showers rather than a bath as it uses less water and less gas.

Tony

 

[AnotherAnn]

They took a whole day to Power flush but since then they have been back three times to endeavor to get all radiators hot.

So would it have to be power flushed again after renewing pipes?

I would prefer a shower but I am disabled and have a walk in shower off the mains but it didn't deliver hot water before the new boiler nor after somebody told me it might be the thermostat but I would have to have a new shower fitment installed. With the heating bill this quarter I won't be able to afford that.

 

[ianniann]

It's not right, you can feel confident in getting them to come back to it. New pipes shouldn't need flushing, but an old system might have been full of sludge. If they didn't do it right, they could have just loosened bits of corrosion that were doing no harm before. Anyway, it's not right.

Feel free to put the control to the highest setting if that's what works for you, although it might be hard to tell until you get it working properly. The maximum hot water supplied by this type of boiler is really quite low (~65C on max, ~60C on 6) although you wouldn't want to stand under it in the shower without a little cold mixed in! There is an "E" setting which WB encourage you to use because it guarantees you will get decent condensing operation because it outputs water at a little below 60C. Hotter temperatures are handy for filling a bath, but a lower setting, even "1", may work just as well for a shower. This boiler should be able to give you a very nice shower with a relatively simple shower fitting.

 

[simond]

It is not normal.

It would take an exceptionally dirty system for the HW heat exchanger to block up in a few months.

Your boiler should be able to deliver a little under 20 litres per minute of water for the first 200 litres or so.

Questions I'd ask if you called me out (unlikely, cause we only look after boilers we installed!) are;

- has it done it since Day 1?
- does the HW modulate in temperature on other outlets, or just the bath? You only mention the bath.


Bath taps can easily pass 25litres per min of water and if you are blessed with a particularly potent water main, (in terms of pressure and flow) there could be too much water passing through the boiler.

Other causes could be a faulty temperature NTC in the boiler or a significantly undersized gas pipe between the meter and the appliance, or a partially shut gas meter emergency control valve.

If I were you, I'd see if Bosch will come out to you on a service call. After all, your Warmfront boiler is still under warranty.

 

[AnotherAnn]

Hi simond and thanks for your reply

In answer to your questions:

Yes it has done it from Day 1

Yes the temperature fluctuates from all outlets. Although I was told that I would not get hot water for a good 5 mins in my E/S because I was too far away from the Boiler. However taps in the next room to the Boiler are exactly the same.

I had a chap check the pressure on the mains water and he said it was so good it was off the scale.

Not sure what a NTC stands for in 'a faulty temperature NTC in the boiler

What size should the gas pipe be between the meter and the appliance?

The Boiler and one Radiator was fitted in July 2010 and the Installers have been back 5 times, the last but one time to try and get all the radiators hot (trying to resist changing pipework from 15ml to 22ml) I have 17 radiators.
The last time a surveyor from the Company came to assess what needs to be done. I kept telling him about the hot water problem but he didn't seem interested.

I did contact Worcestor to ask if the hot water should fluctuate and they said no and they would be willing to send an Engineer round but can't because the Job hasn't been signed off by EAGA yet.

 

[ianniann]

I was told that I would not get hot water for a good 5 mins in my E/S because I was too far away from the Boiler

Eeek! How many miles is that?

 

[simond]

Does the problem disappear if you open the hot tap halfway on the bath?

I think it is ridiculous that EAGA haven't signed the job off yet. All they have to do is register the boiler with Worcester; they can't leave it commissioned indefinitely of the manufacturer will be covering it for years longer than it has actually been installed, which is fraud.

I would ring up Worcester tomorrow and get a service visit. If necessary, register the warranty yourself, there is a barcode serial number on the boiler.

 

[AnotherAnn]

Hi,

The temperature does sometimes improve if you turn the tap on half way, but not always.
This was making me think what the previous person was saying about the flow being too fast.

This also may sound weird but the water stays hotter for longer when the Central Heating is on. But only marginally.

I was under the impression and EAGA confirmed this that all Worcester Boilers carried a 5 years Parts and Labour Warranty.
However when I spoke to Worcester they told me that if the Installer was not on their list I would only get 2 years Parts and Labour.
I asked why and they informed me that some Installers were more specialised in their Boilers.

Because through Warmfront you don't have a choice of Installer and so far the Inspector have called them back to re-run some electrics, to make a hole in the pipe to let the steam out, to refit the flue and now they have to make every radiator work etc. etc. I am not now holding much hope to get 5 years Warranty

 

[AnotherAnn]

I also forgot to mention that when EAGA have approved the Installation and it is registered with Worcester we have to go to Warmsure which is under the same umbrella as Warmfront and they do the maintenance not Worcester.

When the Installer refused to come back and Warmsure was called my experience of Warmsure was: the Engineer walked in looked at the Boiler and said "Basic Central Heating practice is there should be bleed valves on all radiators and there should be no more than 3 radiators off of a 15ml pipe and you have 7"
Then he said he couldn't do anything and he had another 15 appointments to get to before going home. It was 2:10pm when he arrived and 2:30pm when he left.

I know this Government scheme is fantastic for people like me but there are a lot of unqualified people making a lot of money and since I had to turn this Boiler on at the start of the cold weather I have virtually lived in my bedroom weating 3 fleeces a hat and scarf and I am also ashamed to say I have only managed 4 baths. (no wonder my friends are avoiding me)

 

[simond]

I would be very surprised if the people who fitted your boiler were not qualified.

The Gas Safe exams are designed to get people qualified but only cover basic gas safety, the actual understanding of heating and hot water systems and how they work is very variable out there. Similarly, practical skills of installing pipework in your house vary enormously.

That is why when people 'compare' quotes they end up with some laughable work in their house.

Warmfront jobs tend to be fitted by installers working on low wages. Unfortunately this tends to mean that you get a higher concentration of below par work being carried out.

I would try and register your boiler with Worcester, or escalate the issue with Warmfront. The fact that they have transferred responsibility to Warmsure says that they think they have commissioned it.

The 5yr warranty is only available to accredited installers, but the boiler should be under the 2yr basic warranty with the manufacturer.

 

[Terry7556]

ann if you would,nt mind, will you let the forum know how you get on.the treatment you are receiving is very poor and i hope it improves

 

[AnotherAnn]

May I say Thank you to all who have replied to me and I have made a list of possible causes from all your suggestions.

Maybe the Installers had 'burning ears' today as they rang to make an appointment to visit and attempt to get the heat to reach ALL of my radiators.
Whilst on the phone I mentioned again the hot water and the helpful advice that I had gained from this Forum, but the only fault I could remember off the top of my head was the Plate Heat Exchanger in the Boiler. He told me it couldn't be that because the Boiler wasn't old enough.
Sadly he might just as well have told that to my gorgeous dog as we both wouldn't know if he was bull*****ing us.

However the Appointment is for January 19th so I have 3 weeks to wait.

I will definitely keep you posted.

Happy New Year to everybody