yale 6400 siren/signal issue

[c0052350]

Hi There

I've had the yale 6400 premium alarm for about a month. Was working fine up until recently. The issue being the siren is being activated intermittently by the control panel. Before i start resetting and replacing batteries are ther any suggestions. (yaleguy johnd?)

I have done the following preliminary testing:

1. All other devices test fine signal wise
2. Tested with phone line and power unplugged still not relieable
3. Moved the panel to various different locations although it is better but still not 100% activation
4. Siren does most of the time make the beeps 1 for arm 2 for disarm
5. Checked setting such as siren delay

I remember some wire maybe loose in the siren could this be the ariel maybe some fiddling here

To me it does look like signal issues could the batteries which came with the siren be low?

I will take the panel outside and test from there later today.

 

[JohnD]

does the panel say it is in alarm state? or is it just the siren going off on its own?

I suggest you take the siren off the wall and bring it inside so you can look at it and it does not annoy the neighbours. Put the dummy up for the moment. Check that the tamper switch on the siren is securely held (put a rubber band round it for the moment)

Are you sure the siren did not learn any devices except the panel?

Does it go off 4 hours after you have gone out, or gone to bed?

It does have an "interference detection" setting which you can set off, if e.g, a neighbour's radio control device is being used.

 

[c0052350]

Thanks for the quick reply John

The siren doesn't go off on it's own accord (never has) tamper switch should be fine.
The tests i've done have been armed the alarm and then triggered it via pir or magnetic sensor, more often than not the outside siren does not go off. Internal/control panel alarm sounds fine.
Same when activating it via the panic feature on the panel (1+3) and the + button on the keyfob. Ill probably take it off and test.

 

[c0052350]

no other yales

 

[c0052350]

Right guys thing are getting weird if is plug the control panel into other sockets or disconnect the mains from it's current posistion the ext siren works all the time but plugged in in its current location it is very unreliable.

Putting a surge protector current cleaner between the mains and the alarm adapter the system has so far worked every time.

Any ideas other than the obvious, have you guys come across this?

 

[c0052350]

1. There is a difference between plugged into mains and not unplugged it becomes a lot more reliable

2. Surge protector thing proved to be unreliable after furthewr testing.

3. tomorrow I will remove the siren and test in different locations

 

[yaleguy3]

Do you have a wifi.
Because your 6400 plugs into the phone line it is not uncommon for your wireless router to be in the same vicinity sharing the same phone socket.

With some and only some (I have only experienced it once before) routers the signal to the siren can be cloaked.

It is recommended not to have any other transmitting device (ie router) within 1 metre of the Yale control panel.

As far as the loose wire in the siren goes. The green wire is the arial , this to work effectively must have a vertical section in it. If you have just shoved it where it will fit it will be weak at recieving.

It should looking at the siren from the front go vertically up the ;eft hand side and return accross slightly at the top corner. They are stuck in place usually with a glue gun.

If your panel works ok from another socket then consider mounting the panel there (presuming there is also a phone socket nearby) and instead use a remote keypad at your entry exit point.

 

[bernardgreen]

Do you have a wifi.~~~~ With some and only some (I have only experienced it once before) routers the signal to the siren can be cloaked.

To "cloak" or block the signal to the siren the source of the "cloaking" signal would need to be close to the siren's receiver.

Perhaps a neighbour has a wifi or other wireless transmitting device that is affecting ( cloaking ) the receiver in the siren.

Perhaps a mobile phone or similar mast is nearby and its transmissions are affecting the siren's receiver.

It is recommended not to have any other transmitting device (ie router) within 1 metre of the Yale control panel.

Sensible as the other transmitting device would "cloak" signals arriving at the control panel from sensors and remote key-pads.

That said the stability and/or frequency of transmitter in the control panel might be affected by a very strong signal from a nearby source of radio energy thus making the control panel's messages to the siren un-recognisable by the siren.

 

[c0052350]

I read one your older posts yaleguy and turned the router off made no difference (router is a few metres away downstairs) I also unplugged the phone line from the panel still no joy.

I don't believe there is a strong radio presence i.e a mast where I live.

Ill be taking the siren off today and experimenting with the location.
Thanks to everyone for helping.

 

[c0052350]

Update:

After unmounting the siren I decided to do some range testing. The siren worked fine even far away as across the street.

So something was definitely blocking/degrading the signal. I had the siren originally mounted on the wall above the door (its the only place where I can mount it).

The door has a small shelter/cover over it about 2 metres wide (neighbours and mine are joined together) Instead of a slate/tiles covering this shelter its covered with LEAD. The siren was mounted about a metre above this. Having moved the siren further up and to the left it seems to be behaving itself (fingers crossed).

So I guess the Lead was absorbing/blocking the signal (even though the c.panel is mounted higher than the Lead. Guess you live and learn.

 

[bernardgreen]

Making low power wireless communications reliable is a black art. Odd bits of metal in the area can be extremely disruptive.

 

[JohnD]

sometimes you can mount a siren where you can reach it through an upstairs window, if ladder access is difficult.

Above a porch it is accessible to someone who doesn't mind breaking your tiles.

 

[yaleguy3]

Glad you sorted it.

Bernard is absolutely correct.
Your usual brand new construction home presents absolutely no problems in its construction , however metalwork can have an effect as you have discovered.
I have fitted alarms where you can test the signal and it will work fine right up till the last half inch when the sensor gets near a metal window frame.
As Bernard will explain the Faraday effect comes into force and stops signals.
In one particular home with all metal door and window frames none of the magnetic contacts would work so all protection had to be done with PIRs.


Just as a balancing comment while Yale suggest a max range of 30m for their system when in fact I have tested the system in open field out to 120 metres hence why your siren would still pick up accross the street and even beyond.

 

[bernardgreen]

Bernard is absolutely correct.

Naturally

I have fitted alarms where you can test the signal and it will work fine right up till the last half inch when the sensor gets near a metal window frame.~~~~ the Faraday effect comes into force and stops signals.

The Faraday effect is a screening effect from mesh or solid metal.

Metal window frames present a far more complex modification of the directions that radio energy is sent from the transmitter close to the window.

Another effect is when a short length of metal that is electrically resonant at the radio frequency and is at the right distance from the aerial acts as director.

At frequencies around 880 MHz a long metal nail in the right place will act as a director.

The director effects makes a transmitter aerial send a beam of energy rather than spreading it in all directions. It makes the receiver aerial sensitive in one direction rather than picking up signals from any direction.

A TV aerial has several directors to make it sensitive only to signals from a single direction and is often called a Yagi aerial.

Just as a balancing comment while Yale suggest a max range of 30m for their system when in fact I have tested the system in open field out to 120 metres hence why your siren would still pick up accross the street and even beyond.

I am not sure of the maximum permitted power from an alarm control panel if you were able to connect a 10 element ( 8 directors ) Yagi to each of the panel's TX and the siren's receiver you could probably operate over a few miles provided the Yagis were accurately lined up to each other.

 

[alumni]

Long range bells.

You just know what's gonna be requested next after that informative explanation.