Planning an extension

[bongos]

Bit of advice please if anyone can help...

We would like to build a 3 metre single storey extension with pitched roof on the rear of our property. This is to replace a conservatory that is currently there. I understand from LABC, Waltham Forest in my case, that the conservatory did not have planning permission, though they say now with a change of rules a 3m extension to the house would not need it. I should add this was from an informal chat with the inspector who came round about a matter next door.

My main question is: I need to get an architect in to do some drawings so I can get proper quotes from builders but I'm a little unsure what I should be asking an architect for (obviously I need drawings of what we want but is there anything else?)

As for notification of the works - again i'm a bit confused. I understand I won't need planning permission but I will need to notify the works. I assumed I just did this via the LABC but I saw another post on here where someone said you can use private building control. Is this something I should look at for such a small project or am I best just using the LABC? I guess they come round and check the work periodically as it's going through?

Finally, somewhere under the extension there may (or may not) be an inspection cover for the sewer. Either way, the extension will need to built over a shared sewer which runs from right to left straight under the conservatory. I thought I would have to get this diverted but now understand for this I need to contact Thames Water for permission to do a build over (I saw a recent post on this). Is this something I should be looking at before I even contact an architect or should I wait for their expert advice?

I apologise for all the questions - I just want to try to avoid going into this project completely clueless and am also interested as to how the process will unfold - I feel like it can end up being a bureaucratic nightmare but that's probably a little unfair!

 

[DevilDamo]

You can carry out certain works without having to submit a formal Planning application, providing you have Permitted Development rights intact, which the Planning Department should be able to confirm. If you have PD rights and your proposals fall under the PD guidelines, you can choose to submit a Certificate of Lawfulness application to the Planning Department, which confirms Planning is not required. This would help in the long term if/when you choose to sell.

Once the Planning has been sorted, you would need to submit a Building Regulation application. This can be done to the Council or an Approved (Private) Inspector. The process and outcome is similar but fees do differ. For a small extension, it would be better to keep the Planning and Building Control under one roof, i.e. via the Council.

The regulations changed quite recently in relation to sewers and Thames Water now own the majority of which they would require an application, drawings and fee (approx. £300) if you're proposing to carry out works over or within 3m of a public sewer.

You would need an Architect/Technician to guide and take you through the above and you can engage them once you have provided them with a brief. You would get cheaper quotes in approaching a Technician rather than approaching an Architect/Architectural practice.

 

[andrewf75]

I started a thread on this recently as we have discovered a sewer right next to where we want to build.

My advice would be to establish where the drains are before even getting an architect. Our architect didn't pick up the sewer that is now causing us a major headache. To be fair it wasn't obvious from our manhole that there would be anything near where we want to build, but if we had just visited both neighbours and checked their manholes we would have established where it was.

 

[bongos]

Thanks both for the sage advice. I know roughly where the sewer runs as it runs in a line behind all of our houses, approximately 1 metre from the current outside wall of the property.

You would need an Architect/Technician to guide and take you through the above and you can engage them once you have provided them with a brief. You would get cheaper quotes in approaching a Technician rather than approaching an Architect/Architectural practice.

Thank you. Where would I find a technician (as opposed to an architect) listed?

 

[DevilDamo]

Well I'm one as are a lot of other people who comment on this forum.

However, your best bet would be to speak to neigbours to see what they've had done and by who and also look at your Council's Planning website to see what agents have been used there.

 

[cjard]

You would need an Architect/Technician to guide and take you through the above and you can engage them once you have provided them with a brief. You would get cheaper quotes in approaching a Technician rather than approaching an Architect/Architectural practice.

That's not exactly true; he doesn't *need* to engage an architect/AT and he can bring in a private building inspector who won't insist on plans either. Like most things in life, there are aspects of building that are regulated by law (i.e. must have your gas boiler fitted by a gas safe installer) and things that are not. Drawing plans isn't regulated or required and the householder may draw them himself if he wishes, or he may draw none at all and simply say to his builder "extension there, 3m deep, 8m wide, 2.5m at the eaves and 4m at the top, window here, door there. go". When the building inspector arrives, a description of how the controlled works will be carried out, possibly backed up with some sketches on a fag packet, will suffice.
Whether what the builder builds meets the expectations very much depends on the effort spent specifying and supervising, but keeping in close communication with the BI and the builder will see things through without any need for complex or expensive plans

 

[cjard]

I understand from LABC, Waltham Forest in my case, that the conservatory did not have planning permission, though they say now with a change of rules a 3m extension to the house would not need it. I should add this was from an informal chat with the inspector who came round about a matter next door.

The conservatory may not have needed planning permission.. And I'm also curious what rule change (other than removal of an article 4 direction for your area) would mean that a formerly not-allowed 3m extension became permissible. To my mind, under PD rights, a 3m extension would always be permissible, on this factor. i.e. while something else may rule it out, this wouldn't

As for notification of the works - again i'm a bit confused. I understand I won't need planning permission but I will need to notify the works

True. Planning departments care where it's built and what it looks like. Building Control depts. care HOW it's built (insulation, safety, etc) - very different things! Your building inspector couldn't give two hoots if you put your extension in the middle of the street, so long as it's built properly. Planning, however, would go mental

I should look at for such a small project or am I best just using the LABC? I guess they come round and check the work periodically as it's going through?

Private do AFAIK, LABC either go for Plans or Building Notice route. http://www.fenland.gov.uk/article/3435/Full-Plans-vs-Building-Notice

LABC will undoubtedly be cheaper than a private guy, but you'll get assigned some random person from their pool, whose job security doesn't necessarily depend on giving great customer service. You might find that you pay more to a private guy, but you get more value from him. Consider NHS hospitals vs private for an idea of what the difference between council and private BI could potentially be..

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

I am consistently amused by people continuously slagging off Local BC, I just see no evidence of this in this neck of the woods. I suspect peoples poor experiences are merely down to poor drawing submissions and poor workmanship. Pricewise in this neck of the woods with the half a dozen or so Local BC’s I regularaly deal with I have generally found them to be equal to if not lower than Private and rarely get any problems with either applications or on site and more often than not they are a helpful and down to earth bunch, furthermore, you do know LA BC’s are actually run to a profit and each area will have its own inspector, rather than some random person!

I guess it’s as the saying goes, crap in, crap out!

 

[noseall]

Agree with Freddie, all my dealings with inspectors have been amicable.

Inconsistencies across the board however can be a little frustrating and is one of the reasons I always ask to speak to a specific (senior) BCO when phoning about a query or asking for advice.

 

[DevilDamo]

I just want to try to avoid going into this project completely clueless and am also interested as to how the process will unfold

Drawing plans isn't regulated or required and the householder may draw them himself if he wishes, or he may draw none at all and simply say to his builder "extension there, 3m deep, 8m wide, 2.5m at the eaves and 4m at the top, window here, door there. go".

Great advice for somebody who isn't familiar with the process.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

You would need an Architect/Technician to guide and take you through the above and you can engage them once you have provided them with a brief. You would get cheaper quotes in approaching a Technician rather than approaching an Architect/Architectural practice.

That's not exactly true; he doesn't *need* to engage an architect/AT and he can bring in a private building inspector who won't insist on plans either. Like most things in life, there are aspects of building that are regulated by law (i.e. must have your gas boiler fitted by a gas safe installer) and things that are not. Drawing plans isn't regulated or required and the householder may draw them himself if he wishes, or he may draw none at all and simply say to his builder "extension there, 3m deep, 8m wide, 2.5m at the eaves and 4m at the top, window here, door there. go". When the building inspector arrives, a description of how the controlled works will be carried out, possibly backed up with some sketches on a fag packet, will suffice.
Whether what the builder builds meets the expectations very much depends on the effort spent specifying and supervising, but keeping in close communication with the BI and the builder will see things through without any need for complex or expensive plans

What a load of crap, firstly you don't need a full plan submission for an extension LA or not. If a plan or drawing is complex then woe betide a not so hot builder getting it right without a drawing at all! But that's OK because Mr & Mrs Smith who know nothing about building can live in the builders pocket for the duration and ensure their time is spent specifying and supervising, whilst keeping in close communication with the BI and the builder. yes drawings are a waste of money.

 

[tony1851]

I I suspect peoples poor experiences are merely down to poor drawing submissions and poor workmanship.

I'm not sure that's the whole story. In my neck of the woods, much work involves conversion of houses into student lets, most by the same groups of developers.
Some of the older inspectors seem perhaps a little jealous of people making money this way and try as best they can to drop spanners in the works.

There's also the perennial problem of different inspectors coming to each visit, and often contradicting each other.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

I'm not sure that's the whole story.

Fair point no doubt there are bad eggs and people who perform less well than other in BC as in every other profession but my experience is as described. I'd be interested to hear what kind of pedantic things your inspectors are picking up ....

 

[tony1851]

I'd be interested to hear what kind of pedantic things your inspectors are picking up ....

How long have you got?

The main issues I've found are those where the regs can be 'open to interpretation' eg:

1. stairs to loft conversions: AD K clearly states that lesser standards can apply for stairs to a single-room conversion, when space is tight. Yet time and again LABC people try to hold builders to the dimensions in the AD, when they know it's unreasonable. I can almost always justify this to an inspctor, but shouldn't keep having to do this - particularly with the same few bods!

2. Structure: when taking a downstairs wall out in a terrace house, LABC often say we've got no lateral stability, and sometimes insist on goalposts, = £££.
In practice, this is never an issue because of the adjoining houses, but they
demand that the building must be treated in isolation. If we disagree, they just don't give us the Certificate.

3. Part L; in loft conversions, we've sometimes had to reduce the insulation thickness in the rafters because of severe headroom problems. Even though this is specifically allowed in AD L, they then ask for additional measures elsewhere, and/or SAP nonesense, all of which = time and money.

I'm not advocating poor standards or slipshod work - just a little commonsense on their part.

I could go on but it's late.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

I don't get those issues, I suspect you're getting their backs up with your approach ....