Sandstone Cottage - Woodburner Install

[marklamond]

Hi folks,

I have a single storey sandstone cottage, around 100 years old and am looking to fit a woodburner.

Decided to open up the wall on the weekend, to see what i've got. The original opening is large 1m wide by 1m tall and i suspect it had a range of some sort originally. Later on it has been fitted with a fireplace, and then about 10 years ago the front of that was taken away and plasterboarded over.

The original sandstone opening looks in good enough condition and appears to be bearing the weight of the wall above as you would expect. The red brick infil was covered with firebricks before i took the pictures. Above the red brick a throat has been formed for the fireplace with sheet metal and cement has been poured in up to the underside of the sandstone lintel.

Peeking up the chimney it appears that nothing relating to the fireplace is load bearing. Obviously the first job is to clear all of this out and expose the opening.

Can anyone see any issues with this?

Some more pics here:
Pic2
Pic3
Pic4
Pic5

In this pic, you can see round the original sandstone wall behind the brick.
Pic5

I still have to check under the floor to see what remains of a hearth, if anything.

I'd like to install a Morso Squirrel, and am thinking about brick lining the opening down to resize the opening to a more pleasing proportion. This would also give me a sound base to fit the register plate.

Thanks for your help,

 

[Blagard]

I don't see any problems with that. - You just need to take care when removing up to the old lintel. Wear safety footware and other decent PPE so it anything does break loose unexpected you have some protection from a falling brick. That cast in bit may be your biggest problem as it has the potential to fall as a single piece.

 

[Richard C]

As this comes up so often, I’ve put together this generic post; read the links but not all may apply to you.

You can DIY a stove install but you need to understand the Building Regs (which changed in October 2010), submit a Building Notice & pay a fee. Your LABC will inspect &, assuming everything is OK, issue a compliance certificate; the BI may want to witness smoke & spillage tests. No compliance certificate may lead to difficulties when you come to sell your property; if cannot produce a compliance certificate in the event of a problem, your insurance company may invalidate your policy & reject any claim.

Lots of archive threads on this, & other things you have to watch out for, here a few links for you to read:
http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/stove_building_regulations.html
http://www.hetas.co.uk/public/certificates.html
http://www.solidfuel.co.uk/pdfs/buidling_regs_consumer leaflet.pdf
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=183614
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=211524
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=242738
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=224751

& some more sobering just in case you think it’s all a load of old tosh:
http://www.solidfuel.co.uk/main_pages/news.htm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...wood-burning-stove-leaks-carbon-monoxide.html
http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/warning_over_heaters_after_norfolk_couple_s_death_1_811099

Also get at least 3 quotes from local independent HETAS installers:
http://www.hetas.co.uk/nearest_member

You might be pleasantly surprised & you should ask yourself if you really want all the hassle & risk getting it wrong; climbing onto the roof with an 8M stainless steel snake on your back is not for the feint hearted!

--------------------------0000000000000000000---------------------------

There have also been several individual projects involving both opening up & enlarging fire openings & a search through the archive threads should bring up a few.

 

[marklamond]

Thanks folks, that's really useful info - will do some more reading.

The room has plenty of ventillation and i'll be under 5kw output. Horrible laminate floor will be coming up also in due course.

Will be installing in a CO monitor too just to be safe, even long term exposure to low levels of CO is seriously dangerous. Years ago one of my friends got poisoned driving his car (no cat) with a holed exhaust. He had a very bad headache for days and was pretty sick, luckily he recovered.

With regards to regs, as i'm in Scotland, the rules appear to be different. I asked the local building standards if i needed a warrant or any type of permission to install the stove assuming nothing structural gets touched, and explaining the chimney is already open.

They say: "I refer to your recent enquiry below and would advise that the proposed works are exempt and Building Warrant approval will not be required for the installation of the wood burning stove in this instance. Although exempt the works still require to be carried out to comply with the requirements of the Building Standards and would recommend that the appliance is installed by a competent installer."

My local stove shops backed this up. I'll get them out next week to go over the options.

Turns our what looked cast was actually just a 20mm layer of cement over brick, result. That removed I got stuck into carefully removing the top row of brick & tearing down.

That let me get my head in to inspect. The lintel and huge stones above are well bedded into the wall, so i continued.

Removed the rest of the bricks and it's all looking good so far.

Opening is a reasonable depth too.

A view up the chimney.

Decided to open up the floor as well, to see what remains of a hearth. I'm expecting some damp lower down. Soot & fine dust has been falling down the chimney for years, and has settled between the stone wall and woodwork on the wrong side of the poly sheet.

Sadly no hearth & the rear face of the joist is shot, though still solid. It is supported each side of the opening so bad timber will get cut back, and a new hearth formed.

Will see what the stove guys say.

Any comments would be much appreciated!

 

[Possel]

Hi Mark

I know what you're going through - I got a woodburning stove and flue fitted in June this year. I thought of doing it myself, but decided otherwise and, having seen what the installers had to do, I'm very pleased I opted out! It cannot be fun being on the roof wrestling with the stainless flue which has fearsome sharp edges...

The only thing I did myself was to remove the old tiled fireplace and the half ton of bricks and stuff, and revealed a lovely rectangular fireplace This has now been plastered and limestone flags laid as well. See my blog at http://houseintheenchantedforest.blogspot.com, especially the April - June entries re our limecrete floor for photos and info.

 

[marklamond]

Hi Possel,

Had a look at your blog, quite a project there! It's always good seeing what others have done to get ideas.

I spoke to another installer yesterday who was an absolute wealth of knowledge and is quite happy to get as involved as i want. Answered all of my questions, so the weekend's job is to see how the various stoves will work out dimension wise and try to decide on one. Time to make some cardboard models!

I'm now going off the Squirrel as i like some of Morso's new models for 2011, especially their new steel stoves, nice clean lines. Don't know about availability though.

To make full use of the available depth i'll probably line the chamber in either a fireproof board or a stove painted mild steel box. The board option looks good at the moment, allowing ventillation behind for the existing stonework, and provide a crisp render-like finish.

 

[marklamond]

Update time, lots more discussion and research done.

Had the installer i spoke to last week out for a visit and he can see no issues at all, very straight forward. He advised against using heat proof board in the chamber as it will end up dis-colouring and recommended going for the stove painted metal box option.

Flue will come off the top of the stove with a couple of 45 degree bends to get the positioning correct, and they can still be swept through into the stove.

Had i gone for a wider and thinner stove i could have got a flue terminated directly on the top, but a wider stove would increase my seperation to combustibles at the sides. It's a jugging act getting something that looks good, performs well and meets the regs.

Supported and cut the joists out, also did some stove modelling:

 

[hotrod]

Is that a radon barrier you've got under your floor?

 

[marklamond]

Is that a radon barrier you've got under your floor?

Nope, it's a plastic sheet previous builders have put down in an attempt to control moisture levels however this has restricted airflow in certain areas. Has arguably caused more issues than it has solved!

We don't have to worry about Radon in this area.

 

[marklamond]

Finished my install a few weeks back, very pleased with it.

Here are a few pics:

Most of the construction done, ready for the hearth. I dug out the old rear hearth down to the foundation stones and concreted a new base for my brick chamber. Also re-pointed and made sound the stonework behind the brick. A slab for the constructional front hearth was poured on top of hardcore and blinding, then built up in brick to desired level. All dimensions meeting or exceeding regs, local building standards were very helpful.

Fabbed up a steel frame for the register plate that fits snugly in the opening. The mounting tabs are offset so the frame floats and allows for expansion.

The frame is sealed against the brickwork by fire rope which was compressed as i tapped the frame into place, sealing the join and leaving a nice shadow detail but allowing the frame to expand freely. Fireproof silicone too as an extra measure.

Hearth cut and fitted, then room was re-wired from the loft to reroute the ring main. DPM to tidy up also etc.

Liner install time, pulled it up no problems at all.

Stove in and fabbed a register plate to mate up to my frame. Welded on a flange, larger than the stove spigot so even when the stove pipe is fitted you can still drop the plate for inspection. Made for easy install also.

Plate slid up and stuffed with two layers of fire rope, very tight seal. Probably a bit over-engineered considering i have a liner, but best to do the job properly. Fixed the plate with some nice button head hex screws. These screw into captive nuts in the frame. Ended up just needing one 15 degree bend and a straight section of stove pipe so it will be easy to sweep through. Less restriction for the flue too.

Up and running, just some cleaning to do now. The wall has just been patched up for now as it is coming down in the Spring and new stud going up with Supalux board on metal stud within the combustible zone round the opening.

In case anyone is wondering the hearth below the stove does not get even remotley warm. This is a low hearth temp stove with a heat shield on the bottom, so it is approved to sit on a 12mm hearth on top of flooring/carpet if required, shows how well the shield works.

 

[Norcon]

Nice work.
Thats clever the way you did the register plate. Nice one.
And an ecofan to top it off.

 

[hippytyre]

That looks great, I'll be making my register plate the same way as soon as i get the angle iron and the steel plate.
How hard was it to get the rope seal between the register plate and the stove pipe? I've been advised to have the adaptor sticking through my plate but I think I'll have it so the stove pipe sticks through like yours and then just seal the gap with fire rope.

 

[marklamond]

How hard was it to get the rope seal between the register plate and the stove pipe? I've been advised to have the adaptor sticking through my plate but I think I'll have it so the stove pipe sticks through like yours and then just seal the gap with fire rope.

It was really easy - the fire rope is very pliable but seals the gap well, think i used 12mm rope.

I just tapped it in with a chunky, blunt screwdriver, only took a few mins. Can be removed just as easily too.

The collar on my plate was around 20mm tall so i could fit two rings of rope for a perfect seal. I'm sure one would have done though.

 

[hippytyre]

I hadn't thought about fitting a collar but maybe that would make the rope easier to fit. I was just going to build the frame and use 3mm steel with a hole in it just a little bigger than the flue pipe. How did you get the collar to the right size, just tack it and bend it or pre made?

Here's my fireplace being prepared, I took the chimney pot off at the weekend ready for the flue to go down and the clamp etc.


http://rubbermonkey.hectyre.co.uk/?p=62

 

[marklamond]

Yeah you'll need a collar to squeeze the rope between it and the flue pipe.

You can see the collar i made here, the stove spigot is sticking through.

It was just a piece of flat bar i bent into a ring before hand then welded up the join. The ring was then tacked to the register plate, four sturdy tacks did the job fine. You can't seam weld the ring to the plate as heat from the welding it will distort the plate, and heat from the stove in use would too.

Looks like a tidy job you're doing, Morso stove as well.

If you need any matt black enamel stove pipe bends & straights give me a shout, i have some left over i keep meaning to eBay.