F.cking Xmas Tree Lights!!!

[Alarm]

Nope, my wife and myself had children not off spring from farm animals.

 

[JohnW2]

Anyone else that's not a member of the 'throw away society' got any answers??

People's situations obviously vary, but I simply cannot afford the luxury of 'mending cheap things' these days. In earlier times, I spent countless hours mending sets of Christmas tree lights which had multiple dead bulbs (a true nightmare!). However, if/when one comes to be self-employed, or otherwise 'paid for time', and if there is plenty of work available, the whole thing changes. Much as I would, in some senses, 'enjoy' the challenge of such repairs, I cannot justify losing hundreds of pounds worth of 'chargeable time' for the sake of avoiding buying a replacement for maybe £20. As I said early in the thread, it all depends upon 'what one's time is worth'.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[DeltaT2]

Anyone else that's not a member of the 'throw away society' got any answers??

People's situations obviously vary, but I simply cannot afford the luxury of 'mending cheap things' these days. In earlier times, I spent countless hours mending sets of Christmas tree lights which had multiple dead bulbs (a true nightmare!). However, if/when one comes to be self-employed, or otherwise 'paid for time', and if there is plenty of work available, the whole thing changes. Much as I would, in some senses, 'enjoy' the challenge of such repairs, I cannot justify losing hundreds of pounds worth of 'chargeable time' for the sake of avoiding buying a replacement for maybe £20. As I said early in the thread, it all depends upon 'what one's time is worth'.

Kind Regards, John.

But John, it's not or was not, my valuable time that's in question. You spend time with your kids repairing a set of cheap Xmas Tree lights, that time is worth nothing to me, I enjoy it & they learn a valuable leason.

Talking of valuable time, you can get a Spark around here for £8/hour - there's that many of them!! Their rates are not much higher than common Labourers.

 

[JohnW2]

But John, it's not or was not, my valuable time that's in question. You spend time with your kids repairing a set of cheap Xmas Tree lights, that time is worth nothing to me, I enjoy it & they learn a valuable leason.

Of course, if it's not time that you could/would otherwise put to money-earning purposes, then it makes sense. Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury of being able to compartmentalise my working and leisure time quite as clearly as that!

Talking of valuable time, you can get a Spark around here for £8/hour - there's that many of them!! Their rates are not much higher than common Labourers.

I certainly could not afford to be an electrician - and (as is true of many professions and trades) you'd have to pay a hell of a lot more than £8/hour before you would stand any chance of getting my services - ten times that rate would not get you many professionals

Kind Regards, John.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Yes, just what I did with my first wife - I got a new model.

I see what the problem is.

You need to realise that getting new lights will not be as expensive as getting a new wife was.

 

[DeltaT2]

Yes, just what I did with my first wife - I got a new model.

I see what the problem is.

You need to realise that getting new lights will not be as expensive as getting a new wife was.

You clearly don't know the Divorce laws in Scotland son, but hey I'm sure you'll think you know everything.............

 

[Steve]

A great many (pre-led) sets of lights were made with non-replaceable filament lamps in the last few years. Total tat of course. But symbolises the throwaway society we live in.

I dont think you can even buy a plain, bog-standard set of 20 mains voltage lights anymore.

 

[dhutch]

Fixed a set of my lights on sunday. Some sod had pulled half the set off the wall ripping it two and damaging it along the way. Only cost £18 and took an hour to fix but thats not awful hourly rate and as they where new this year i felt i owed it to myself and the environment!

======

To answer

If there are three wires, and every other light is out, that very much suggests to me that there are two circuits, in series, with a common return. And that one or more of the bulbs in one of the circuits is making a bad connection or has failed open circuit.

Most likely one wire will go the first bulb and daisy chain ever other to the end.
One wire will go to the second bulb and daisy chain ever other to the end.
And the third will run past all the lights and link to the far side of the end two bulbs.

==

Often the larger low voltage sets are made up several series circuits in parallel, where the failure mode is every other (or every third, in posher sets than mine, that can chase over. three circuits) will fail for a section of the string (be it half, a quarter, etc)

The wire topology is very similar to the above, only at the first and second bulb (and third if in threes) and outgoing feed will join on with the incoming feed to go onto the next series loop (three wires to the first bulbs, two to the first side, on to the second) and then these two outgoing wires will run with the common rtn to the end of that section of the set, where it will start again. Here there will be three (or four) wires out of the box, turning into five (or 7) for most of the sets length, but dropping to three (or four) every 20 (30) lights or so.

==

Assuming there are less than about 10-20 lights I would, starting from one end, take out a bulb from the working circuit, take out a bulb from the non working circuit and put it into its place, putting the known good bulb in in the non working sets in its place.
- If the working circuit comes back on, that bulb is ok, if not chuck it and put a spare in its place till the circuit lights.
- If the non working circuit comes on, that was the loose/damaged bulb. If not, it wasnt that one, but assuming you have put it back in properly its now a known good bulb, and you can move onto the next one.

If that doesn't work (i find it does about 80% of the time) then atleast you know all the bulbs are good in the non-lit section, and its a failed connection or a break in the wire your looking for.

Assuming there push-fits its also worth making sure the tails of bulb are neatly folded around the base, straight and long, as sometimes they can go to one side or the bulb can be pulled out of the push-fit base.

If you look at how its wired you can also do clever things bridging the output of one set into the input of another, to test the control unit doesn't have a head channel, but thats the advanced lesson.

==

All of the above advice it targeting low voltage sets, which you are largely safe to work on with the only real risk being to kill the set totally. Although must of it including the bulb swapping routine will work for mains sets, but obviously more care needs to be taken due to the risk of working with 240vac where although the voltage over the bulb may only be a few volts, the differential to earth will get upto 240vac with enough current to kill.


Have fun, let us know how you go.


Daniel

 

[Grizzly]

Yes, just what I did with my first wife - I got a new model.

I see what the problem is.

You need to realise that getting new lights will not be as expensive as getting a new wife was.

You clearly don't know the Divorce laws in Scotland son, but hey I'm sure you'll think you know everything.............

So new lights are as expensive as a divorce in Scotland?
Or a divorce in Scotland is as cheap as a new set of lights?
Or did you not think through your reply to BAS before posting it?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

All of the above advice it targeting low voltage sets,

Surely you mean extra-low-voltage?

//www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:voltage-bands

And surely with ELV sets you won't get lots of lamps in series - that technique is used with LV sets to put (for example) 80 3V lamps in series.

I wouldn't have thought you could get mV lamps that you'd need to have anything more than a handful in series with an ELV supply...

 

[dhutch]

All of the above advice it targeting low voltage sets,

Surely you mean extra-low-voltage?

//www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:voltage-bands[/QUOTE]
Well ok, elv, below 50v.

There's more than enough 24v sets with 10-20lamps in series however, and ditto led sets, including larger sets.of the topology discribed with say 20 series circults in parellel to give 400 a bulb set. ive got plenty.

Daniel

 

[DeltaT2]

Yes, just what I did with my first wife - I got a new model.

I see what the problem is.

You need to realise that getting new lights will not be as expensive as getting a new wife was.

You clearly don't know the Divorce laws in Scotland son, but hey I'm sure you'll think you know everything.............

So new lights are as expensive as a divorce in Scotland?
Or a divorce in Scotland is as cheap as a new set of lights?
Or did you not think through your reply to BAS before posting it?

Oh no I did think through my reply to the self-righteous BAS.
A quicky divorce in Scotland is dead cheap.

 

[DeltaT2]

Fixed a set of my lights on sunday. Some s** had pulled half the set off the wall ripping it two and damaging it along the way. Only cost £18 and took an hour to fix but thats not awful hourly rate and as they where new this year i felt i owed it to myself and the environment!

======

To answer

If there are three wires, and every other light is out, that very much suggests to me that there are two circuits, in series, with a common return. And that one or more of the bulbs in one of the circuits is making a bad connection or has failed open circuit.

Most likely one wire will go the first bulb and daisy chain ever other to the end.
One wire will go to the second bulb and daisy chain ever other to the end.
And the third will run past all the lights and link to the far side of the end two bulbs.

==

Often the larger low voltage sets are made up several series circuits in parallel, where the failure mode is every other (or every third, in posher sets than mine, that can chase over. three circuits) will fail for a section of the string (be it half, a quarter, etc)

The wire topology is very similar to the above, only at the first and second bulb (and third if in threes) and outgoing feed will join on with the incoming feed to go onto the next series loop (three wires to the first bulbs, two to the first side, on to the second) and then these two outgoing wires will run with the common rtn to the end of that section of the set, where it will start again. Here there will be three (or four) wires out of the box, turning into five (or 7) for most of the sets length, but dropping to three (or four) every 20 (30) lights or so.

==

Assuming there are less than about 10-20 lights I would, starting from one end, take out a bulb from the working circuit, take out a bulb from the non working circuit and put it into its place, putting the known good bulb in in the non working sets in its place.
- If the working circuit comes back on, that bulb is ok, if not chuck it and put a spare in its place till the circuit lights.
- If the non working circuit comes on, that was the loose/damaged bulb. If not, it wasnt that one, but assuming you have put it back in properly its now a known good bulb, and you can move onto the next one.

If that doesn't work (i find it does about 80% of the time) then atleast you know all the bulbs are good in the non-lit section, and its a failed connection or a break in the wire your looking for.

Assuming there push-fits its also worth making sure the tails of bulb are neatly folded around the base, straight and long, as sometimes they can go to one side or the bulb can be pulled out of the push-fit base.

If you look at how its wired you can also do clever things bridging the output of one set into the input of another, to test the control unit doesn't have a head channel, but thats the advanced lesson.

==

All of the above advice it targeting low voltage sets, which you are largely safe to work on with the only real risk being to kill the set totally. Although must of it including the bulb swapping routine will work for mains sets, but obviously more care needs to be taken due to the risk of working with 240vac where although the voltage over the bulb may only be a few volts, the differential to earth will get upto 240vac with enough current to kill.


Have fun, let us know how you go.


Daniel

Thanks mate for taking the time to post that very informative tutorial. But my daughter fixed the lights at the weekend.
Hope you have a good Christmas.

 

[dhutch]

Thanks mate for taking the time to post that very informative tutorial. But my daughter fixed the lights at the weekend.
Hope you have a good Christmas.

Good on her, and the same to you.


Daniel

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Oh no I did think through my reply to the self-righteous BAS.

Self-righteous?

You are completely deranged.

You "thought through" your reply? Impossible - given what you said you are clearly incapable of any mental processes that could even vaguely resemble thought.

I wrote "You need to realise that getting new lights will not be as expensive as getting a new wife was", and that means that I have an exaggerated opinion of my own virtuousness?



Do us all a favour and just go away, will you?